We’ve just posted a statement on our website about the work we do in Iran. I’ll post it here so people can comment.

========================

Recent media reports have speculated about Nokia Siemens Networks’ role in providing monitoring capability to Iran. To clarify: Nokia Siemens Networks has provided Lawful Intercept capability solely for the monitoring of local voice calls in Iran. Nokia Siemens Networks has not provided any deep packet inspection, web censorship or Internet filtering capability to Iran.

In most countries around the world, including all EU member states and the U.S., telecommunications networks are legally required to have the capability for Lawful Intercept and this is also the case in Iran. Lawful Intercept is specified in standards defined by ETSI (European Telecommunications Standards Institute) and the 3GPP (3rd Generation Partnership Project).

To fulfill this Lawful Intercept requirement as part of an expansion to provide further mobile connectivity to Iran in the second half of 2008, Nokia Siemens Networks provided TCI, the Iranian national operator, with the capability to conduct voice monitoring of local calls on its fixed and mobile network.

The restricted functionality monitoring center provided by Nokia Siemens Networks in Iran cannot provide data monitoring, internet monitoring, deep packet inspection, international call monitoring or speech recognition. Therefore, contrary to speculation in the media, the technology supplied by Nokia Siemens Networks cannot be used for the monitoring or censorship of internet traffic.

On March 31st, 2009 Nokia Siemens Networks and Perusa Partners Fund I L.P., a private investment firm advised by Munich based Perusa GmbH, successfully closed the sale of Nokia Siemens Networks’ Intelligence Solutions business to Perusa. Nokia Siemens Networks made the decision to exit this business as it primarily addresses customer segments which differ from telecom service providers and is therefore not part of Nokia Siemens Networks core business.

In all countries where it operates the company does business strictly in accordance with the Nokia Siemens Networks Code of Conduct and in full compliance with UN and EU export control regulations and other applicable laws and regulations.

Nokia Siemens Networks provides the mobile technology for millions of people in Iran to communicate with each other and the outside world. Nokia Siemens Networks firmly believes that providing people, wherever they are, with the ability to communicate ultimately benefits societies and brings greater prosperity.

=================

So that’s what we’re saying in response to the rumours. Unfortunately, I was unable to clarify for the Wall Street Journal the limited scope of the lawful intercept capability (voice calls only) and rule out all those specifics about deep packet inspection and web filtering. Our failure to kill that speculation at the outset has obviously led to a lot of concern about our work in Iran.

I will endeavour not to filter comments, although solely abusive comments will not be tolerated.

—————-

This is below within the comments, but I’ve posted here for clarity so you can see our response to some questions/comments:

Lots more comments. I’ve approved pretty much all of them I believe. I’ve only deleted those not in English. Apologies to those commenters.

Firstly: we are not Nokia or Siemens, but a separate and jointly owned subsidiary, Nokia Siemens Networks.

I will aim to deal with the main accusation that even our presence in Iran is wrong.

Mobile networks in Iran, and the subsequent widespread adoption of mobile phones, have allowed Iranians to communicate what they are seeing and hearing with the outside world. The proof of this is in the widespread awareness of the current situation.

The fact that telecom networks in Iran – as they are all over the world – are required by law to have the ability to monitor specific voice calls, needs to be weighed against the huge empowerment that connectivity brings to ordinary Iranians.

When asked, we have been transparent about the communications capability, and the limited monitoring functionality, provided to Iran. We feel there is a net-benefit in an open, responsible company, such as ours, doing business in Iran to bring wider connectivity to people there.

I am sure many people would prefer no Lawful Intercept capability in any telecommunications networks. However, it does have an important role in fighting crime, and most governments around the world have deemed Lawful Intercept a mandatory feature of their networks. That is the regulatory environment in which telecoms networks are built.

So given this Lawful Intercept is mandatory, the question we have to ask is: Would people in Iran be better off without access to telecommunications at all?

We did have a choice as to whether we bring the Iranian people this connectivity, in the knowledge that telecoms networks have the ability to monitor voice calls as they do all over the world, and believe there is a net benefit to the people of Iran.

Ben Roome

And another comment as a lot more similar messages have been posted:

I do want to say to the people commenting here if we’re (I’m) aware of the situation in Iran. We are (and I am), and it is mainly because of mobile phone video, photos and calls from across Iran, communicating events first hand as they happen, that we are so aware.

As I said above: we had a choice as to whether we bring the Iranian people this mobile connectivity, in the knowledge that telecoms networks in Iran are required to have the ability to monitor voice calls as they do all over the world. We made that choice and believe there is a net benefit to the people of Iran.

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382 Responses to “Provision of Lawful Intercept capability in Iran”

  1. I recall similar debate raging against another vendor selling kit into China. Good statement and very clear.

  2. I think it might be very helpful for those who want to understand NSN’s involvement in Iran’s state censorship/interception programme if you were to further clarify the core of your press statement. The descriptive phrase “restricted functionality monitoring center” for what you have shipped is quite meaningless to me, maybe you could further clarify:

    How was the functionality restricted? Were necessary technical components for DPI & similar techniques not delivered or was the system restricted via its configuration? If technical devices were withheld, which were those – and would it be possible to get them (or equivalent devices) seperately? What was your reasoning behind providing Iran with one kind of interception technology but not with the other?

    Thank you very much!

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  4. What are you doing there at all?? I have started a boycot of all your products until you offer no succour to these fascistr dictators,and mass murderers, we see the friends you keep and we do not like it, the message is reaching every corner,people are throwing away your products turning them off and binning them as I speak. switch off any thing you have supplied to IRAN, NOKIA products by association has NEDAS blood on it.

  5. You might want to say this in a better way because it has already ripped through the internet and twitter and people are considering a boycott. As my empathy lies with the people of Iran, about the only, other than my prayers, I could do is boycott any US Company that refused to divest from Iran (mush like I did with S. Africa a long time ago).

    So by the time I had read this on Huffington Post, I had already notified all of my friends and family to get rid of their Nokia phones and other products.

  6. Pingback: Nokia Siemens Admits Limited Iranian Interceptability Over Their Hardware | mowbee.com

  7. Explain to me please, what you are saying here means:

    1- That you are making money by selling technology and provide services to every and any body? every and any side of any given conflict around the world? and as long as they pay for your technology and services in hard cash? (correct me if I am wrong)

    2- That Nokia Siemens cannot see any different between “all EU member states and the U.S” and any given oppresive regime in any given country?
    Did Nokia Siemens sold technology and services to Taliban too? Are you going to sell your technology and services to Al Qaeda if they take over any given country?

    3- What do “Provision of Lawful Intercept capability to ….” means? Which low? Any humanitarian lows are included in that low?

    4- Dear Mr. Roome, I hope for swift answers from you on these questions, before my lovely Nokia cellphone goes sweeming in the North Sea just outside Oslo where I am writing this from. :(

    Best Regards

    from Oslo

  8. What happens when your “Lawful Intercept” capability is sold to regimes which are likely to use it a way which would be considered unlawful under European and UN Human Rights conventions – say to suppress freedom of speech? Is that really morally and ethically acceptable? We don’t sell low-tech instruments of repression like weapons to the Iranian government – so why sell high-tech instruments of repression like call monitoring? Your statement seems to be suggesting that the benefits to the Iranian people outweigh the potential costs, but tell that to the people that may have been arrested or have ‘disappeared’ – perhaps permanently – because of what you have done.

    It’s too late to turn back the clock now, but when will be the next time? Which is the next popular and peaceful protest movement to be brutally suppressed with help from your technology?

    Personally, I won’t be purchasing any more Nokia products until your company can make the right ethical choices and state its clear intention to do so. I fear it won’t because money talks – and it’s more important to Nokia than a few people in prison or buried in the ground in a far away country. Until ordinary people like me hit Nokia where it hurts – in the pockets – the company will do whatever it can to make as much money as possible. I hope other people choose to boycott Nokia as well. Any consumer business which plays a part in the political repression of those same consumers is on very dangerous ground.

  9. I’ll try to address some of these questions:

    Why do business in Iran?
    We believe that the people of Iran benefit hugely from having widely available mobile communications networks. The awareness of the situation there would seem to bear this. However, as with most governments around the world Iran requires the ability to lawfully intercept and monitor voice calls on its telephone networks. We provide these to comply with the requirements in Iran. We believe our values and our transparent response to questions about the communications networks we provide is the way to do business. If we had the ability to “switch off everything” in Iran, which we don’t as the systems are operated by the local operators, millions of Iranians would be left without the ability to communicate at all.

    What is restricted functionality?
    As we explain we provided the ability to monitor voice calls on fixed and mobile networks. These systems cannot be hacked to provide additional functionality as they would never be approved to sell to any operator. The security of the systems is key.

  10. I find these business dealings with the Iranian government to leave a bad taste in my mouth. I will join the boycott and have already thrown my Nokia phone in the bottom drawer sans batteries so it cannot be used. It is soon to go to the recycle center.
    You have helped the Iranian government to suppress the peoples rights to free speech for the sake of a dollar. You will never get another dollar of mine.

  11. Whilst appreciate your statement the questions remains – What were you doing there at all. We have known for years how repressive and billigerent Iran is so why are you doing business with them. I’d now call it blood money.

  12. Democratic world should help people of Iran whose getting killed by it’s dictator regime and NOT aid the dictator government to suppress it’s people further

    Iran’s government have been doing this for past 30 years and this is not something new, it just came to world’s attention recently duo to election fraud in Iran

    Monitoring phone calls in Iran will further isolate people and will cause a lot of people to get arrested!

  13. If you have NOT provided deep packet inspection, etc. to Iran, you guys in Nokia Siemens Networks PR/corp. communications need to start a social media campaign STAT! And you should start with a YouTube video.

  14. You should be ashamed for ever providing anything to such a government at anytime…..I am calling for all to “dump” your stock worldwide!!!

  15. Your explanation would be sufficient when your company deals with a democratic and legitimate government where due process for this type of interception and eaves dropping would be exercised. With governments such as Iran, there is no such thing and where in Western countries such things may only amount to invasion of privacy, in countries such as Iran, this costs peoples their lives!! You are held responsible if you sell a loaded gun to a criminal. This is no different. A government that has one of the darkest report cards in human rights history in my opinion is a CRIMINAL and should not be dealt with. If you are a member of EU or a civilized country you would have been expected to respect all these so called sanctions that have supposedly been put in place! Right now people are being identified and dragged out of their homes and may lose their lives based on this technology. Your explanation does not help them or their families!

  16. I read the article about what you have sold to Iran, as well as your press release statement. Your actions were both legal and morally responsible. Without your network we would not be able to see much of what has and is going on within the country.

    Not selling communication equipment to dictatorial regimes would mean that the people under the thumbs of those regimes would NOT be able to communicate with each other and the outside world. That does not help the people within the country or us. Those railing at you just need someone to rail at.

    It would be great however it somehow a phone update happened to get out onto the internet that allowed people to get around the system. Just a line of code that could be downloaded to Nokia phones that would last say a week or two.

  17. So why did you allow the Iranian gov’t the ability to intercept and monitor calls at all? Just because it’s legal? It’s also “legal” according to the Iranian gov’t to attack peaceful protesters, and kill them. And you’ve now made it easier for them to do just that.

    I think any company that allows for any gov’t to intrude upon personal privacy and freedom to be boycotted. I hereby boycott nokia and siemens products (and I’ve bought both in the past)… Never again!!!

  18. Your statement does nothing to quell my doubts about your roll in “monitoring” for Iran. My husband will be getting rid of his Nokia phone & I, my family & friends will boycott Nokia in the future.

  19. “We believe that the people of Iran benefit hugely from having widely available mobile communications networks.”

    ????????

    Do people of Iran have “widely available mobile communications” to day Mr. Roome?

  20. Shame on you that want to wash the blood on your hands with just a cold technical explanation. I forgot, you’d do anything to get a contract. Go design a technology that freedom loving people can use to protect themselves from being identified by authoritarian governments like Iran. By the way, some of these families will never even have the luxury of receiving bodies of their loved ones for a decent burial. Hope you feel good about yourselves!

  21. As I wrote to your company yesterday, I have already destroyed my 2 Nokia/Siemens phones, and have watched as my Mother, Sister, 2 Nephews and 1 Niece destroyed theirs at the same time. We even set them inside a barbecue grill and burned them to a crisp. Motorola makes a fine phone, and Apple is the phone I aspire to own soon. As for the “ability to lawfully intercept and monitor voice calls on its telephone networks” – the word “lawfully” stands out. As an American I do realize that even our Government snoops on us, but I STRONGLY disagree with this practice! For every good thing it enables it also enables 10x as much BAD! I do NOT agree with private citizens ANYWHERE being “monitored” as if they are someone’s property.

    As to your system in place in Iran – If there is no way to “switch off” the system, then how can you explain the widespread outages of cellphone service in the country over the past few weeks? OBVIOUSLY your systems were in place to enable the tyrannical regime to “jam” the system at the very least. Having worked in communications myself (wireless, AM and FM, DTV) I know for every “front end” there is always a “back end”, too. I’m sure your company knew full well when the system was installed that the Iranian regime would be able to suppress communications at its will.

    This is another example of corporate greed at the cost of human lives. I stand by my email I sent and will continue to spread the word and post on websites and blogs and social networking sites like Twitter.com and Facebook and MySpace. I also have a presence in the Linux community, which values “open source”, and believe me, one thing no self-respecting Open Source advocate would ever approve of is a “back door” as has been allowed to be in place by your technology.

    This is the last you ever have to listen to me. From here you will only hear from the people I reach out to with this story, and I hope it empties your pockets soon!

    Disrespectfully Yours (since you have no respect for Human Rights or Liberties)

    John Hampton
    Lexington KY

  22. But I send you a question that didn’t apeare here:

    I asked you: Did Nokia Siemens sold technology to Taliban too?

    But I guess it was intercepted in a act of “lowfull” Censorship??

    with best regards

    from Oslo

  23. When will corporations learn that their social responsibility should be greater that their irresponsible pursuit for profits? Probably never. You are responsible for your actions …. live with it!!!!! We consumers also have a voice and a choice .. deal with that as well.

  24. Your company saw a business opportunity and took it. They weighed the moral cost of doing business with tyrants against their profit margin and chose the latter. No matter how you portray the technicalities of your products, they have been utilized to suppress free people and prop up systems of control.

    You have two options at this point: 1) Stop justifying yourselves, issue an apology and do what you can to limit Iran’s use of these technologies, or 2) Continue to justify your collusion with the Iranian government and accept a massive boycott that will not be limited by any amount of damage control you attempt.

    Intelligence and information is more important to suppression than arms. Right now you have to face the facts that your company is the most important arms dealer to a dictatorship.

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  26. We are told that you did not supply this capability to China or Burma. Is that true? If so, why did you sell to Iran, and who else have you sold it to? Like many others I am close to a boycott of things Nokia and Siemens. You make your choice. I make mine.

  27. I know in the U.S., the government has the ability to track, trace, and tap into just about anything we do. When people exercise their right to assemble and protest, our government does not stand there with guns, open fire while spraying bullets into the crowds. They do not shoot and kill women (especially pregnant ones) yeah, check the photos of the autopsy from one. Heartbreaking to see a fetus with a whole in the abdomen from a bullet. They also do not shoot children who attend protests.

    With the track record of Iran, your company should have used more discretion. I do not own, nor will I ever purchase any of your products.

  28. Your statement seems carefully limited to the joint venture. Did Siemens proper also sell Iran it’s Intelligence Platform, of which the Monitoring Center is only a part?

  29. IMHO a couple of items in your response seem questionable and perhaps you can shed some light. Please correct me if I am wrong.

    1)
    The ETSI standards you mention, (which seem to be little more than basic functionality guidelines) refer to:
    “European Council Resolution of 17 January 1995 on the lawful interception of telecommunications”

    Those into turn specifically refer to
    Articles K.1 (9) and K.2 (2) thereof of the Treating Establishing the European Union.

    Article K.2 States clearly [re: K1]
    “1. The matters referred to in Article K.1 shall be dealt with in compliance with the European Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms of 4 November 1950 and the Convention relating to the Status of Refugees of 28 July 1951 and having regard to the protection afforded by Member States to persons persecuted on political grounds.”

    Presuming the aforementioned is a logical interpretation, then your policy is required to be in full compliance with the above European Conventions as well. If it is not then your policy is in violation of the intent of the documents and protocol that you cited. Can you assure me you are in fact in compliance with the above?

    Point 2:
    “If we had the ability to “switch off everything” in Iran, which we don’t as the systems are operated by the local operators, millions of Iranians would be left without the ability to communicate at all.”

    This appears to be a somewhat irrelevant argument since the govt of Iran vis-a-vis the local operators can “switch off everything” at their choosing regardless of the enhanced monitoring system you sold. Please let me know if this is not the case.

    I appreciate your time and consideration and look forward to your response.

    -VoxPop

  30. Please help me understand: on the one hand, Mr Simon Beresford-Wylie is very vocal about your company’s “corporate responsibility”. On the other hand, you have sold a repressive regime in Iran the tools to spy on its citizens and crack down on peaceful self-expression. Your explanation that “we believe providing people, wherever they are, with the ability to communicate is preferable to leaving them without the choice to be heard” is laughable and hypocritical. Perhaps you can provide me with a better explanation? Thank you.

  31. I am very glad your technology is there right now assisting the citizen reporters. But until you find away to keep Iran from blocking or tracking citizens with your technology, I will not by any of your products and urge others to do so.

  32. For all those planning a boycott, I wouldn’t be surprised if most of the videos coming out of Iran were recorded on Nokia mobile phones in the first place.

  33. Iran has starts Friday Prayers for the past 30 years with “Death to America”.
    There is a reason why US companies do not do business in Iran. The stated aim of their Revolution is to spread it to the world and the down fall of Western power.
    It’s time the European Businessman to stop just looking at the money to be made and start looking at who they are doing business with.
    Will you also be setting up North Korea’s Web?

  34. Please issue a public statement how Nokia/Siemens mobile products are actually advancing news and photos out of Iran. Neda’s murder was captured and disseminated by cell phone.

  35. I had around 500 Euros worth of Nokia & Siemens electronics in my house including a high-tech phone and two mobiles. As soon as I found that what a disgusting thing you have done by selling this technology to Iran I immediately throw my Nokia and Siemens devices in the garbage.

    I vow to never ever buy Siemens or Nokia electronics for the rest of my life…that is atleast 5000 Euro worth of lost revenue. I will tell all of my family and friends to do the same. When atleast 10 of my family and friends do the same, that will be 50,000 Euros of lost revenue… and when enough people boycott you…dont wonder why NSN went bankrupt.

    NSN will be peronally responsible for hundreds of deaths in Iran.

    I am sending this mail and the link to the Wallstreet Journal link to everyone I know.

    I have also contacted the News agency SPEGEL in Germany. They are going to investigate what you have done.

    Shame on you!

  36. @Ben Roome

    I believe that NokiaSiemens Networks have tried to balance the argument and made a fair business decision. NSN is a business and it has an absolute right to make to earn a decent profit from its businesses, past, present and future. Through its statement, it has tried to justify the provision of the “lawful intercept” capabilities arguing that these are standard conditions for telecom networks of all EU member states and the U.S and regulatory standards.

    However, in light of the current situation in Iran, does NSN believe that its decision to provided the State-owned TCI “lawful intercept” capability was morally and ethically acceptable? Does it consider its business decision to have been justified, considering that the people responsible at the NSN would have certainly been aware of the history and behavior of the Iranian regime and in all likelihood were aware on the intensions of the authorities for these functionalities?

    What is NSN’s position on “lawful intercept capability” be if NSN were presented with a similar opportunity to provide telecom networks in countries such as Burma and North Korea?

  37. While I appreciate your response/PR stuff…I find it questionable, therefore I will BOYCOTT –ANY– of your products and so my friends (and their friends)…

    HOW DARE YOU!!!!!!!!!!

  38. Your statement is a typically disgusting corporate response when caught doing something unethical.

  39. I got rid of my Nokia and Siemens stock today. They need to clarify this issue before I will buy any stock in either company again. I suggest that everyone that call whoever handles their retirement accounts and ask them to get rid of this stock. By the way both of the stocks are down today.

  40. Lots more comments. I’ve approved pretty much all of them I believe. I’ve only deleted those not in English. Apologies to those commenters.

    Firstly: we are not Nokia or Siemens, but a separate and jointly owned subsidiary, Nokia Siemens Networks.

    I will aim to deal with the main accusation that even our presence in Iran is wrong.

    Mobile networks in Iran, and the subsequent widespread adoption of mobile phones, have allowed Iranians to communicate what they are seeing and hearing with the outside world. The proof of this is in the widespread awareness of the current situation.

    The fact that telecom networks in Iran – as they are all over the world – are required by law to have the ability to monitor specific voice calls, needs to be weighed against the huge empowerment that connectivity brings to ordinary Iranians.

    When asked, we have been transparent about the communications capability, and the limited monitoring functionality, provided to Iran. We feel there is a net-benefit in an open, responsible company, such as ours, doing business in Iran to bring wider connectivity to people there.

    I am sure many people would prefer no Lawful Intercept capability in any telecommunications networks. However, it does an important role in fighting crime, and most governments around the world have deemed Lawful Intercept a mandatory feature of their networks. That is the regulatory environment in which telecoms networks are built.

    So given this Lawful Intercept is mandatory, the question we have to ask is: Would people in Iran be better off without access to telecommunications at all?

    We did have a choice as to whether we bring the Iranian people this connectivity, in the knowledge that telecoms networks have the ability to monitor voice calls as they do all over the world, and believe there is a net benefit to the people of Iran.

  41. What exactly do you mean when you say that you were providing “lawful intercept capability” and then comparing Iran’s use of such technology to those of western democracies such as EU nations? Seriously, are you not aware that Iran is a religious dictatorship where all dissent is ruthlessly oppressed? That you were selling this technology to a government which routinely executes women by having them stoned to death in public places?

    Selling technologies which are likely to be used to quell civil dissent to a regime such as this is appalling. Anyone with a modicum of common sense could see how such technologies are likely to be abused by Iran. The fact that these technologies are used for “lawful” purposes in Europe and other places doesn’t change the fact that Iran was likely to use them for oppression – a five year old could have seen that.

    Nokia clearly failed to do the ethical thing in this case and this weasel-worded statement only makes it worse. “Lawful intercept capability” – I hope the members of your PR department are proud of themselves.

  42. It was a shock as I got the massage from my friends today at 7Oclock in the morning.
    ————
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124562668777335653.html
    ————
    I thought it should be against Human Rights and I decided to send this link to responcible people for getting an answer about this. because I have read in our Code of Conduct the followings:
    “We recognize that difficult questions of interpretation of Code provisions may arise, particularly regarding the need to balance sensibly and sensitively local customs and requirements with global standards and practices. Nokia Siemens Networks will do its utmost to resolve any identified ethical, legal, environmental, employment, and human rights issues so as to be consistent with this Code of Conduct.”
    ——–
    My Familly and I didn’t sleep that much in past days. My Brother is on the streets in Tehran everyday and I can’t even call him on his mobile phone to be sure that he is ok.
    My first reaction after readin the newspaper was to find the guy who has developed this Application, to maybe find a weak point in this Application or to find a way which helps people to get around this Application.
    People in Iran need real Information. Internet is the only place they can communicate, and at the moment this communication is dangerous.
    Many People around the world from Austria to Singapur to Germany, whom I asked for help, answered me eagerly and tried to find a solution.
    It was really heartening for me to see how many people, my dear NSN colleagues, were ready to help me on this issue.
    I’m rally proud to have such Colleagues.
    Thank you all

  43. “I am sure many people would prefer no Lawful Intercept capability in any telecommunications networks. However, it does an important role in fighting crime, and most governments around the world have deemed Lawful Intercept a mandatory feature of their networks.”

    This is the whole problem with your reasoning. The government you sold this technology to is itself a criminal organization (would you like me to supply you with evidence of their disgusting treatment of their own populace for the past three decades?). What you have therefore elected to do is to empower a brutal oppressive dictatorship. Comparing the government of Iran to those of true democracies such as the countries of the EU (where the governments are actually ACCOUNTABLE to their citizenry for their behavior) is some of the worst double-speak I’ve heard in years.

    Any person with even the most basic understanding of ethics would realize that the possible gains to Iran that supplying this technology would cause (supposedly helping the Iranian authorities to combat crime) is FAR outweighed by the likely use of this technology to oppress the citizenry. I’ll be boycotting both Nokia and Siemens because of this. As I said above, your “explanations” have only made what you’ve done worse as far as I’m concerned.

    A frank admission that you made a serious mistake and will take steps to ensure that such technologies will not in future be sold to regimes which have a known history of oppressing their citizenry would be a much better policy. Such an approach would require a modicum of character on the part of Nokia-Siemens though and that seems to be beyond you.

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  45. you didnt know that iran goverment is BOYCOTT ? why did you sell such a hightech device? just a few contries have this technology for finding terorists!

  46. I am boycotting all of your products because of your support for this murderous regime. I just smashed my Nokia phone. Would you like me to mail you the pieces?

  47. @Ben Roome
    I have 2 concerns with your new statement

    1.
    In the original Wall Street Journal article it states:

    >>The monitoring center that Nokia Siemens Networks sold to Iran was described in a company brochure as allowing “the monitoring and interception of all types of voice and data communication on all networks.”

    it is very hard to believe that the iranian regime saw this brochure, ordered the communication system to be installed but agreed to only have a “limited scope”, as you say, installed in Iran.
    (fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me)

    2.
    you sold this technology (which probably includes source code, and electrical circuit plans, blueprints, etc.) to Perusa GmbH in Germany.
    God knows to how many other terrorist governments Perusa will sell it to.

    Great job, Nokia Siemens Networks!
    Thanks for “saving the world”.
    Please dont “help” anymore.

  48. Sorry, Ben – not buying your explanation. Siemens/Nokia had prior knowledge of Iran’s potential mis-use of this technology. I don’t buy the “increased connectivity” excuse, either. What good is increased connectivity if it gets one killed? You can’t convince me that you folks didn’t weigh the pros and cons. Siemens had a choice, and knowingly chose $$ over humanity. I find it very interesting that the division was sold so soon after installing your “Intelligence Solutions.” in Iran. Was your exit strategy planned in advance as well?

    I’m joining the boycott. I’m also contacting any and every sports team, venue and fan to demand that they dump you as a sponsor and remove the Siemens/Nokia names from sporting venues and events.

    You’ve blown it – in the worst of ways.

  49. Pingback: » » Provision of Lawful Intercept capability in Iran News: News

  50. Pingback: Nokia Siemens Admits Limited Iranian Interceptability Over Their Hardware at Hellfire Empire – Wireless

  51. Pingback: » Provision of Lawful Intercept capability in Iran News: News | Iran Today

  52. Your “sales brochure” as quoted in the WSJ states that your Central Monitoring product allows “the monitoring and interception of all types of voice and data communication on all networks.”

    Are you now telling us you only sold a “portion” of that capability to Iran?

    The article also quotes you as saying that “the “monitoring center,” installed within the government’s telecom monopoly, was part of a larger contract with Iran that included mobile-phone networking technology.”

    So, Mr. Roome, what ELSE beside mobile phone monitoring did it include as a part of that larger contract?

    Would you care to prove that you sold “limited” monitoring capabilities by posting a copy of that “larger contract?” Or do we simply have to take your word for it that you didn’t do anything wrong?

  53. By your logic, it would be okay to sell weapons and other sorts of technologies to regimes that are known for being oppressive and violent against their own people.

    People at Nokia Siemens are quite ignorant about the possible outcomes of their business dealings. It’s time the world put a stop to these companies dealing with rogue regimes just to make a buck.

  54. “most governments around the world have deemed Lawful Intercept a mandatory feature of their networks”

    A Government that violates basic legal norms can never exercise “lawful intercept”.

    Where you provide so-called “lawful intercept” to governments who demand it as a condition of contracts/tender, and where that government is a known violator of fundamental human and democratic rights, does your company provide public/open source information for the citizens of that autocracy?

    If the answer is, “No,” then your actions are despicable.

  55. This story that has emerged – in the wake of recent events – serves only, once again, to underline the deep and honest mistrust that ordinary citizens of the world have of large, global companies such as yours and also of the very people that lead our countries. No matter what kind of democracy we pretend to enjoy.
    But thanks. We appreciate you clearing it up for us.

  56. Well, I was about to change my old cellphone (a Motorola) for a Nokia this week. It’s good that I read this article (and some other ones on this subject). I think I’m going for an iPhone or some other cellular phone. Not a Nokia.

  57. Fortunately, we can believe mr. Boone completely as his ex-mother company (Siemens) is a highly ethical company….oohhhh wait….they were fined $1.6 billion for bribery by the SEC last year. See for example http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122919269803304383.html

  58. @Roome

    Product you have sold to Iran can not get used to help people to communicate at the moment.
    It’s getting use to arrest them and kill them.
    It is against your Code of Conduct.

  59. I do apprecciate your effort in explaining your motivitation concerning your deal with iran.

    Selling a monitoring system to a regime like Irans is like selling a gun to a murderer using the argument that it was “safeguarded anyway”. Ofcourse you had to know that this regime would abuse the systems abilities to further violate human rights.

    Whilest I agree with you on the point “communication aids the people” in general, in this specific case your communication – system could, and probably will, cost lifes.

    Your code of conduct is, sorry to say that, not worth the paper its written on.

    My e63 Nokia phone was the last nokia product I bought.

    Regards

  60. I just want to say SHAME ON YOU. They are arresting and torturing people who are trying to get their voice out and you have helped them. SHAME AND SHAME ON YOU

  61. Lawful interception, huh? Right next to lawful shooting of people and lawful total lack of free speech. What the hell are you people thinking, seriously?

  62. Nobody is buying your explanation. You people would do anything for money. Shame on you. People should boycott you for what you have done and they will. You put money before humanity and you gonna lose. You probably thought this would never leak out but the world now knows about your dirty business with these murderers. I hope you go bankrupt

  63. This statement keeps Nokia Siemens Network’s business in Iran very vague. What is a “restricted functionality monitoring center” (restricted how?) and what information are you actually providing to the Iranian authorities? The problem is not that your presence in Iran is wrong; your activities in Iran are.

  64. Great job NSN !
    It was of great help to us iranian to have a free iran. Iranians give thanks for this achievement!

  65. Ben, I wonder how much effort you and your team put in to the statements in order to justify your actions. I guess you are an expert in the field of communications and therefore invaluable for the company. What a fantastic job you have; legitimizing NSNs support to governments that arrest, torture, and kill thousands of people. Do you know what the Iranian Government does to its people? Why dont you quit your job and do something useful with your life? Did you see how NEDA died. There are many many more like her, being killed and you are contributing to that. Do something about it now and stop Bullshiting the world.

  66. By the way Ben, pleasae do not track my ip address and give my details to Iranian Government. I have a family, which I love and I would like to grow old with them, an opportunity that you have deprived many Iranians from.

  67. So what do people who who believe Nokia Siemens are wrong in providing the network technology to Iran proposing? Isn’t it better that they have bugged mobile phones than no mobile phones?

  68. ‘Lawful’ does not mean right! And ‘increased connectivity’ DOES NOT excuse murder.

    Al-Jazeera has picked up this story, and I hope it explodes over the news wires.

    You, Nokia and Siemens deserve a worldwide boycott for this.

  69. Pingback: Nokia-Siemens under pressure - Persianhub

  70. Your response is disgusting. By giving monitoring software and equipment to the Iranians you’ve placed money over human rights. Helping such a a government undermines the democratic framework in which inovative companies thrive. I other words, you undermined your own existence as a company. You have displayed disgusting stupidity and people remember these things for a long time.
    iPhone go go

  71. What is this? I bet there’s some monitoring center in every cellnetworks. That’s probably for the police because how on earth they could listen criminals’ calls in other way. I bet there’s more use for people now when they can communicate to others than if some1 happends to listen them. And if one doesn’t dare to call then he can use older methods to communicate.

    Other thing is this search,map,email,browser,whatever -company which is actively censoring internet at China.

  72. At the risk of being Flame bait

    These “monitoring” facilities have long existed in Telco switches & even if they didn’t there is nothing to stop monitoring calls/data at the exchange level. Simply case of plugging in 2 wires and you already have monitoring capabilities.

    These are standard features built into telecommunication exchanges and are in use the world over.

    What alot of people seem to forget is during 9/11 where the USA were monitoring calls and even after then, when the Telco’s were given retrospective immunity, because… they were MONITORING calls.

    The arguments provided are more to do with Nokia Siemens being the equipment provider, but like anything, if it wasn’t Nokia Siemens it would be Nortel, Ericsson, etc.

    If you feel that strongly then boycott their products, but bear in mind that you may as well boycott the telco equipment providers in the UK, USA, etc, as they have also provided “monitoring” facilities.

    /burn me.

  73. To other readers:
    I haven’t heard any gun shop to be guilty for the any murders even they know that someone could shoot others using their products. And I’m pretty sure, that other vendors like, Intel, AMD etc are selling stuff to them.

    And what about Google? Who remember that anymore, how they are behaving in the China?

    It is wrong what Iran does and has done, but it is not the vendor who is doing that.

  74. To all those boycotting Nokia/Siemens products, please consider that whatever your preferred mobile network is, and whatever phone you use, NSN products are almost certainly a CORE component of the network, be it base stations or SMS relays or customer databases.

    If you really want to boycott NSN, you’ll have to cancel your mobile phone entirely.

    Sorry about that.

  75. If this system, as its full, was sold to any other so called western civilized country, would there be such a shout from big audience? I bet no! How the buyer uses technology is something else. The one who sells it can not control the use. The boycott people should be ashamed on their comments – it is nothing but populism.

  76. The problem is this: How do you remain unsullied when you want to do good? And as always, the answer is that you often have to choose. You did a good thing by giving the people of Iran their network, no question about that. Communications help people.

    However. And this is a big however: The ethical thing to do would be to only offer the regime a system without intercept capabilities, take it or leave it. Your answer is of course that they would not have bought it. Fine. Then that’s the situation, and you have done your part. If someone else sells an intercept-capable system to them, that’s their call, not yours. Their hands will be tainted, not yours. Note also that it’s not predetermined that they will get someone to sell them such a system at all. Many companies will avoid doing business with them. Perhaps not selling would have brought them back to your door, finally asking for the non-intercept system?

    Instead you chose to give them what they wanted, you accepted their blood money. Your product will likely have caused the deaths of thousands of mostly young, democracy-minded people. You say that it’s only voice intercept, as if that mattered. There will be mass executions as soon as the unrest is quelled.

    And as a consequence you are about to see what your actions have sown for you. Best of luck. You’ll definitely need it.

  77. Oh, I should clarify that last paragraph of my comment. Your actions will have consequences for you when people understand what you have done, in sold stock, falling prices, lost contracts, lost customers, and a sullied reputation.

    There is a company called Nestle. Ask them about breast milk substitution in Africa, and you’ll know what I’m talking about.

  78. While I have no wish to underplay the gravity of the current political situation in Iran, I cannot help thinking that all these persons boycotting Nokia and Siemens will also need to boycott all mobile phone equipment vendors including Ericsson, Motorola, Alcatel-Lucent, Nortel, Cisco, IBM, HP, Huawei, ZTE, etc., because they all make and/or sell legal intercept equipment. Your ISP also has such facility installed – will you give up your internet connection and home phone also?

  79. Pingback: Mobile News - Mobile Industry Buzz!! » Nokia Siemens Sold Iran Telecom Monitoring Technology

  80. Pingback: Light Reading - Valley Wonk - NSN Has a Bad Day

  81. Can’t you people get it? NSN provided the monitoring ability because it has to provide it along the network because the law tells so, this happens also in most countries. you can’t blame them because they did what they had to get into iran and to get more money, but they still helped iranians to communicate with eachother.

    People read the whole article again! and under the article is a ckarification

    P.S sorry for my english :)

  82. I am so upset about the NSN covert dealings with the draconian government of Iran that I will buy all Nokia and/or Siemens phones from the nearby stores and bury them in the sea!

  83. Too much emotions, so little facts. I don’t think these comments have much to do with the reality.

  84. I think this is morally OK. Everybody corporates with USA and they way worse murderers.

  85. I think americans should be pretty quiet about business actions like these. They have sold weapons to Bin Laden, Iran and Iraq goverments in order to “control” certain unstable areas in world.

    Having a monitoring system in various network applications/systems is pretty much standard functionality. It’s the matter of who is using that functionality and for what. Not who made it.

    Hypocrites, I would say. Disgusting.

  86. Quite shocking to read comments here where people are trying to connect (causal connection) NSN and horrible incidents in Iran.
    Emotions are overruling rational thinking completely. Sad to see how people can be wrong, completely wrong.

    Keep up the good work NSN and have a nice summer!

  87. Iran’s got some 72 million people. Like myself, they want to keep in touch with their family, friends, use telecom for work etc. Especially at the time of unrest, does any of you “boycotters” (I guess you sold your personal cell towers, since NSN doesn’t make phones you claimed to smash) understand how important this kind of beacon in the darkness is?

    Completely agree with Ben. Sometimes the interest of many outweights that of the few.

  88. I think this (NSN) statement is very clear. Call monitoring is a legal requirement in most countries, including Iran.

    Some of the commentators here might wish to know that phone snooping capabilities are much, much more sophisticated in such ‘free’ (loaded term) countries like the US and most European countries. This is in relation to what NSN sold to Iran. Specifically, they made clear that there was no data monitoring, speech recognition or packet inspection. These are standard features in the US for example.

    They did supply voice monitoring capability (ability to snoop in to calls). This, however, is a legal requirement in most countries, sanctioned for use against crime. Unfortunately, like any technology, this capability can also be used for repression.

  89. Pingback: maxxza.com » Blog Archive » Tech giants deny helping Iran eavesdrop

  90. Deep emotions + small bits of (mis)information taken out from its context = not a good recipe for constructive dialogue.
    I have to give credit for NSN: they could have let this flaming take place outside their own web site. Looks like trying to be open and fact-based is not a good recipe for making yourself popular.

  91. It would be interesting to know how sopihisticated monitoring and intercept services have been built for western governments. After 911 there were reports that every phone call from/to certain north American country was tapped…

  92. The fact that Western governments require “lawful intercept” — and the Iranian misuse of them — shows how horribly misguided these laws are, and how they can easily become tools of oppression.

  93. Pingback: Nokia Siemens Denies Its Technology Helps Iran Monitor Web, Muzzle Dissent | Design Website

  94. While I am well aware that other telecom companies do stinky things, I do not see a problem with that. When the regime has killed off the opposition in Iran, voices will be heard about Nokia’s involvement. When people understand the scope of Nokia’s ethical malfunction and the results of same, it will be a very harsh time for the company. And when Nokia’s name has been dragged through the slime and mud enough, and has suffered the economic consequences of that, the message will be perceived clearly by other telecom companies everywhere: DON’T JOIN THE SURVEILLANCE TEAM. If it takes making an example of Nokia to achieve this, that’s okay with me.

    Because what you really are saying is: But everyone else is doing it!

    Yeah… you keep telling yourself that’s a good enough reason for doing despicable, rotten things.

  95. Oh! I just forgot:

    Prove to us that what you sold the iranian regime does NOT contain the ability to track more than voice.

  96. Obviously Nokia Siemens Networks sold Monitoring Center Software to Perusa Partners Fund I LP whos retailing company is Trovicor.

    Trovicors Managing Director today is Johann Preinsberger
    who formerly was Head of Worldwide Sales & Customer Care, at Siemens Nokia.

    Can you confirm this?

  97. Pingback: Nowinki » Nokia Siemens Denies Its Technology Helps Iran Monitor Web, Muzzle Dissent

  98. Again, to those who think it’s fine for Nokia to have done this because call minitoring is supposedly a “legal requirement”, have you no clue? In the west call monitoroing is occasionally authorized when the courts issue a warrant to the police or another security agency to monitor a criminal’s phone calls. For instance if the police have evidence to suggest that a certain person is a child molester and they go to the courts to get a warrant to tap that person’s phone. We have an established and transparent legal system that allows for such things. THIS IS NOT WHAT THIS TECHNOLOGY HAS BEEN USED FOR IN IRAN AND ANYONE WHO ISN’T A NAIVE IDIOT COULD HAVE PREDICTED THIS.

    Iran is a religious dictatorship which has ruthlessly quelled dissent for decades, their use for this technology was not to protect their citizenry from crime but to use it to hunt and kill protesters. There is no “legal requirement” to have these systems attached to a phone network, that’s just meaningless double-speak. It is entriely at the discretion of the company selling the network (ie Nokia-Siemans) whether or not they wish to supply this system because they feel there is a LEGITIMATE requirment for it. The west doesn’t sell nucleur technology to dictatorships for the same reason. Shame on Nokia-Siemens.

  99. In many countries law prohibits illegal monitoring from Police even. But Iran’s government does illegal monitoring on purpose, right now.
    You have a good reason to switch off the monitoring functionality immediately from the iranian network. You have a reason for it: They are using the monitoring functionality for illegal purposes. They are doing it right at the moment. That is a way to show that you do not accept the behaviour of the Iranian government and that you care about the normal citizens of Iran!

    If you have not noticed illegal monitoring made by the Iranian government earlier, now you can say you notice it and you can tell that as a reason why you have to change it. They are using the monitoring capability for incorrect purposes. That is not acceptable. Concrete actions would be needed quickly.

    You can say normal networks can be kept running, but the monitoring functionality needs to be switched off, right now (in a couple of days).

    Maybe you could say that it will be switched off only for a period of time, for few months etc.?
    Or maybe the monitoring functionality should be switched off permanently, because they misuse it always. Maybe it should have been the original decision already in the beginning. Iran is such a country. Everyone knows it of course.

    NSN could say that NSN wants to provide safe means to communicate to other countries for the citizends of Iran during this current situation. Currently it is not possible.
    Or is it through https, PGP, ssh, etc.? (Could you provide an answer?)

  100. It is hard to believe that so many of the comments here demonstrate a lack of critical thinking skills.

    First of all, on the question of deep packet inspection and content filtering, keep in mind that these concepts were created to address the problem of insecurity created by hackers. The fact that a government or anyone else could use the same features to adversely affect individual rights is not the fault of the feature or the creator of the technology. The blame lies solely with the person(s) who use the technology to violate others.

    That minor flaw of “blaming the gun” aside, think about the root cause of so many conflicts…lack of communication.

    To those that say nobody should sell communications technology to Iran I would ask if they have seen all of the postings of photos and video since the election? Exactly what do you think made this possible? It is the average citizen having this technology in their hands. (The fact that it took the regime a few days to begin blocking the escape of information is a curious deviation from typical totalitarian regime behavior thus raising the question if this was due to incompetence or a basic underlying belief that the problem would work itself out.)

    If Iran were not equipped with all of the benefits of modern society who would be hurt? Certainly not the politicians in power. They will always have the public purse to enhance their quality of life. It would be the people at large who would suffer if communication systems were not in place. I WANT the visibility and transparency of A/V in every citizen’s hand to shine light on every evil act of government, religion, or individual.

    So for these reasons I applaud every company that provided the equipment Iran has in place today. Blaming these companies for providing Iran with communication and connectivity is simply too stupid to contemplate. Stop blaming the gun and start blaming the idiot holding it.

  101. I never was a fan of nokia and siemens, but now I certainly will not buy every, anything from these bastards!!

  102. Why do we have so many people crying about Mobile network technology and no cries about all the weapons sold to Iran, Iraq and countries over there. I think most people here are “Hypocrites” as someone wrote. How many innocent civilians have American forces killed in Iraq… where are the Weapons of Mass Destruction Bush said they had?… are you freaking idiots or has Bush government brainwashed YOU… there’s your opression… buycott that…

  103. Oh, so you’d like to maintain a distinction between “good” (Western) and “bad” (Iranian etc.) censorship and try and convince us that your surveillance tchnology is only for the purposes of “good” spying.

    Sorry, the rest of the world doesn’t see it that way.

    I have ditched my Siemens mobile already (for a Sony Ericsson) and will tell my friends and colleagues to boycott your companies. Do the right thing – even if it means missing some revenue. I will be monitoring your corporate behavior on this, as will millions others.

  104. Lots of flaming going around, and very little understanding of the true issue. Basically all telecom networks have lawful interception capabilities, no matter who has sold them. The same question could be posed to all the network providers, and they would have the same answer. Why single NSN out? Iran is not the only country oppressing their people.

    Same logic that is applied to networks could be applied to cars (can transport the oppressing police force), cameras (oppressors can take pictures of the opposition), pens (can document the names of opposition supporters for further actions), and so forth. Not even to talk about guns.

    A bold and ethical thing for NSN to do.

  105. You have just committed a business suicide. You are no different than ammonization manufacturers making guns and rifles. Your profits are covered with the blood of so many young people like Neda Agha-Soltan, killed in Tehran.

    You know what kind of government you are dealing with in Iran, but guess using ethical judgment would have cut into your profit. Hope you can sleep at night…

  106. Pingback: Consumers Boycott Nokia, Siemens for Selling to Iran | GetAnswers.ws

  107. Seriously, you people with the “shame” comments have got to calm down. I know seeing the images coming out of Iran can be frustrating, but try and think rationally here.

    Remember that when/if this settles down, we’re still going to have to negotiate with Iran. Would you suggest we immediately ban all potential future negotiations because of what’s going on now? Did we do the same with China in 1989?

    We buy products from repressive regimes. Repressive regimes buy products from the west.

    Most people got over the fact that buying goods from China directly helps the Chinese government, which is responsible for killing scores of its own people.

    If you’re going to be so unbelievably rigid as to toss out your Nokia phone because some BBC videos got you pissed off, you’d better throw out the computer you’re commenting on and most of your other consumer goods, too.

    You can try and spin it in innumerable ways, but it all boils down to the same thing. A company sells its tools to other interested parties. Sometimes those tools are used in terrible ways. That’s life.

    All the stuff about lawful intercept capability doesn’t really have much to do with the fundamental issue that seems to be getting so many of you pissed off.

    Although I think Wired is having fun highlighting your comments and trying to exaggerate their way to an interesting story, so hey, keep it up, and a magazine in over its head politically will write about it some more.

  108. To whom it may concern,
    First I have family in Iran which makes me particularly angry about this, a lawsuit and mainstream media coverage on this issue is being planned. There are very legitimate arguments right now that shows this violated the current embargo and sanctions imposed on the Iranian government. You sold monitor centre to a oppressive dictatorship, knowing full well that it would be used to further oppress the people (This is commonsense), and there is solid evidence that this has lead to the detainment, torture and death of Innocent civilians. This can be collaborated from inside Iran. You have blood on your hands. On your lacking argument in the press release, I can personally attest that Tehran and other cities had a very capable wireless network long before they acquired monitor center.

  109. thanks!so this is how europe responds to the cries of help from iran.by providing the regime with tools to inspect even our web-activity.congradulations!this is called human sympathy! :(

  110. 1. I am surprised that people are unaware of the fact that “lawful” (definition depends on your country) intercept and content filtering functionality have been around for donkeys years and that this facility is used by _every_ ISP/telco/government/country to monitor “interesting” traffic. Its just that the use of these real-time capabilities are not advertised. This could be the reason that most people are unaware of this fundamental *fact*.

    2. The decision on who should or should not come to power is the fundamental right of the electorate whether it be in Iran or anywhere else. Candidates win, candidates lose. Iran has to decide for itself.

    3. No sensible company would turn away a potential customer because “people” say they are bad. That’s ridiculous and that’s not how business is done.

  111. @hyperlax – Will you also throw away your new Sony Ericsson phone when you discover that Ericsson probably supplies similar “spying” technology which happens to be required by law? Do the right thing, toss that phone now…

    @Irani – we probably wouldn’t know that Neda died if her pictures were not taken with a cell phone and transmitted over a cell phone network for all of us to see and mourn after her.

    Every useful tool can be a weapon…

  112. go to hell Mr Roome

  113. Pingback: Should We Believe NokiaSiemensNetwork’s Denials? « NetworkLabs

  114. KK, no offense but your posting is ridiculous. Comparing selling a technology which is SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO INTERCEPT AND MONITOR CALL CONTENT is not the same as selling a car, or a pen, or whatever. Again, there are safeguards in western democracies which generally speaking prevent these technologies being abused. In the case of Iran the government has a well document track record of ruthlessly oppressing its population. Selling a network technology that is specifically designed to monitor the country’s phone calls is just not on. The principled stance of companies such as Nokia-Siemens and others that are based in the west should be that they will sell cell phones and cell phone network technology to Iran but will not sell the government and tech that can be used to monitor civillian calls. Simple as that. It’s possible that the Chinese or some other unscrupulous power will then sell Iran alternate technologies, however at least we will have not partaken in this evil. That too complicated for you to understand?

  115. Pingback: On Looking Deeper, Or, Things About Iran You Might Not Know « advice from a fake consultant

  116. I agree with Creige , In any civilized country, to monitor a call you need a court order , but as Creige said Iran is a religious dictatorship , Iran is a country where they stoned to death young girl because of having outside marriage relationship with another man ( and this has happened by court order ) , I am sure that Nokia’s Sales persons knew very well what kind of government Iranian government is, but they went ahead and sold what ever Iranian wanted to buy, at the end of the day it’s only businnes, why Mr. Ben Roome can not recognize this and let us continue with our lives why do you have to come up with the word like “net-benefit” , I beleive that the only winner of this debate is going to be some american lawer because it is only a matter of time that some of these injured demonstrators who happened to live in US will file a sue against Nokia.

  117. Thank you Ben for clear and accurate comments and responses.

    What is happening in Iran is a human catastrophe of colossal magnitude. The oppressed people are fighting the evil, cruel, totalitarian regime and showing ultimate courage while doing so. I am proud to work for a company that has created devices and equipment that make it possible for the people of Iran to have their voices heard outside their country borders. If there were no cellular communication available, the dark abyss would have made it impossible for anyone to know what is going on in the streets of Tehran. Has anyone ever seen footage of riots in North Korea? No, because there is no widespread access to wireless communications. In fact I would argue that mobile phones and networks have contributed to democracy more than any other medium in the past twenty years or so and that trend is not going to vanish. Quite the contrary.

    Now the populist media is using the feature of lawful interception as the Great Satan. This standard feature, that is part of every mobile network, can not be used to track what the press is shouting – the content of people’s data and phone calls, internet censorship etc. This is utter nonsense. However this type of journalism helps to sell news and papers. It replaces facts with emotions. And when indeed in reporting, certain aspects and facts are deliberately left out, this type of blog comments then arise than we see on these pages. Ignorance makes strong. Therefore the respected journals publishing the information should bear the responsibility for misleading and dis-informing people.

    In Thailand, text messages were used to gather and direct the demonstrations against the regime. Same is taking place in Iran. Today, A byte is truly mightier than the sword. It is naive to think that networks would be sold without standard features, such as the legal interception possibility. However I am certain, that without mobile networks, we would have never been able to condemn the actions that are taking place in Iran nor would have the people been able to organize them selves to demonstrate. I sincerely hope that peace will come back to Iran and reforms start taking place. In this age people can not be oppressed any longer.

    I know that when I will be old and looking back on what I have done in my life, I will be proud to have worked for two companies (Nokia and Nokia Siemens Networks) that have done the single largest contribution for democracy, freedom of speech and expression, and providing socio-economic development than any other company in the world has done. Ever. Nokia and Nokia Siemens Networks have made the lives of billions of people better so how dare you mock the company that has done so much good and continues to do so? Comparisons to weapon manufacturers are not only offensive, but totally out of place. Learn and listen to the facts, do not jump into emotional conclusions before you see all the sides.

  118. NSN : Was this system to provide “lawful interception” sold as a part of a larger system delivery to TCI or as a stand-alone system?

    Proud worker of NSN: I agree 100% the means of communication are very important for a peacefull development of any society. And I believe very few people are mad about selling mobile phones or networks to Iran but about this specific system in question. Since the technology of that system is rather complicated the misunderstandings are unavoidable. Hope the true nature of the system is openly communicated by NSN to public.

    In Iran the GSM networks are no more used to share much of the information about this conflict since the networks are constantly shut down in the areas where people gather (SMS totally blocked) and people are too afraid to use those to share the information. Even the pictures are taken with Nokia phones are then sent to the outside world via PC internet connection which are easier to tunnel and cryop than the mobile connections.

  119. While everyone are focusing on NSN telecom monitoring, you forgot that telecom network is the core of communication. If NSN wouldn’t be there, there would be some other company, Ericsson, Huawei, Nortel … If none of these companies weren’t be there, there would not be network in Iran. And if there were not networks, there wouldn’t be any phones. The video of Neda was shot with a camera phone. So without phones and networks, none would know about the depth of Iran crises. And most of western people wouldn’t give a damn of what they do not know about.

    Most likely the video of Neda was shot using a Nokia phone, given the number of Nokia devices out there.

  120. Isn´t the lawful interception a standard feature on networks from all network suppliers? The feature is demanded by law in most civilised countries and the networks you all use, has this feature. There is nothing specially “specific design” about the feature, the same feature is used by all european goverments for dealing with criminal forces etc.

    Obviously, the supplier can not control whether network standard features are used “wrong” by goverments.

    If Nokia Siemens would not have supplied a network to Iran due to some odd reason, do you really think the suppliers would said “no”.

    So, could somebody please tell me what the problem is? I mean finding the connection in the following is a little difficult:

    “a network supplier supplying a standard network and a goverment shooting people from the opposition”

    That is like me destroying all kitchenware and electrical appliances from Siemens AG because of Nokia Siemens delivering a network to Iran. It almost equals “stopping driving japanese cars because Nokia is a Japanses company” (according to some 60% of the americans :-)

  121. So sad to see so many childish and naive opinions in this blog. If company is selling standard mobile network features to network operator, it should be operator seen as responsible how those are used. If NSN hasn’t sold these equipments to Iranian operator, some other companies certainly had done that. I’m sure there has been bid out and certainly NSN has not been the only one bidding, but (un?)lucky to win.
    If allowed market area would be only true democratic and really free countries, possible markets to cover would be really small, maybe 15% of all countries in the world.
    Who has sold mirrored internet swithces, which China is using to monitor all Internet traffic or how about all communication switches in US, which are all monitored since 911? In Iran case they are monitoring only their own citizens, the US big brother is spying everyone of us. How about every company rushing to emerging Russia markets, even new regime there is not too much better thatn previous one from civil rights point of view, most probably LIG equipments are used for similar purposes, but it is not ending to news or otherwise you will find your faith like Anna Politkovskaja.
    Why there is not raised such noise from selling these equipments to these countries? And please don’t start that these governments are clean innocent nations, which are always following international laws and ethics. All of them just happen to be super powers and seems to have their own rules and laws.
    I know that many Yankees are screaming now, but if you were captured as innocent based on terrorism acts, nice to be jailed and tortured without any rights and possibility to have proper trial for indefinite time. I would not dare to say aloud word “terrorist” or “bomb” when queuing in JFK immigration line.
    How about other dictatures around the world? I think communications are intercepted and extremely controlled in all of those countries, but haven’t raised such noise so far?
    And as response for all those stupid boycott stuff I’ll promise to update mine and my family mobiles to brand new Nokia ones during this summer… N97 for me and my wife and some nice music phones to kids…

  122. Isn’t it good that the government has tools to look for people who try to influence to the result of the election by force?
    Iran’s population is over 71 million. If handful of criminals and sheeps who follow (few tens of thousands from 71M…) has problems with the result, why this much of a shouting?

  123. To those of you commenting in this blog, i’d like to say that the outrage is biased.
    In the USA a named entity was spying on US citizens without any judge approving or even auditing the actions, and the same entity was and is ‘lawfully’ (at least based on US law) intercepting foreign communications all over the world (see ‘Echelon’ entries in Wikipedia). The large telco’s in the US and all suppliers (name one and you’ll find them all being active in the US) have to abide to the situation there.
    Whenever you’re communicating in packets (send an email, write a blog, chat around) the chances are high that your communication is passing a network node which is located on US soil and therefor under that same jurisdiction that allows interception of any foreign communication (your communication and you’re no danger to anyone at all). So the consequence in knowing this is boycotting what?
    But to be clear about it, i’m not comparing the two countries and the situations in each. I just want to open your eyes for something different when talking about intercepting calls or censoring the net.

    My position regarding the situation in Iran after the questioned (re-)election is the following:

    It is the first time the people in Iran (even in any country in the world) do use modern communication technology to such a massive extent to organize protest and to report about it.
    So the situation is something new.
    The technology behind mobile communication networks is existing since the early 90s, and even since then legal/lawful interception capabilities where built into them. Police and Law Enforcement worldwide have used this capabilities to hinder crime also since then. And regimes and governments (even those which have been elected based on democratic systems) have turned usage of the capabilities against the people.
    As stated in one of the previous comments, the press / multimedia is now searching for the ‘hot story’ not knowing the technical details and looking only for the print run (or largest number of readers).
    Trying to understand the details is crucial.

    Any comments i could give on the technical concepts of ETSI based Lawful Intercept will not change your mind about the technology.

    IMHO, the fact that millions of people can communicate
    over a modern network outweighs the use of LI capabilities by a regime built into it, because it only accelerates overcoming the regime.
    You might say that i’m neglecting the loss of lives, and to some extent you’re right, i admit.

  124. Pingback: Nokia Siemens in Iran: Shame or all’s fair game for telcos? « ICT for Peacebuilding (ICT4Peace)

  125. Mr Roome, by now you must have realized just how revolted the average person is with your company’s actions in Iran. And yet you still counter that NSN “made the choice to offer Iranians mobile connectivity and believe there is a net benefit to the people of Iran.” The fallacy of this line of thinking is that ANY telco that decided to do business with Iran would have given the people of Iran this benefit. But NOT EVERY telco would have provided the spying tools along with the package that NSM did. Your company had a choice, nobody twisted your arm. If I were you, I would cringe every time the Iranian authorities arrest someone and “disappear” him or her to a torture cell – because your company FACILITATED this. Because you gave the mullahs the ability to “listen in”.

  126. The people commenting here need to understand the jargon you are using NSN – for the sake of clarity please try to explain that it is impossible to provide a wirelkess network that does not permit its owner to listen to the calls on it, there has to be this feature to make the whole thing function. This is true for any telephone network in any country and many laws have been put into place to prootect the public, unfortunately the nature of law is to broken by those who pervert justice to their own ends.

    The simple (but morally complex) issue here is if the network provides a better service to Iranians or a method of spying for their current regime. The former must outweigh the latter and by having this debate in public I’m sure we would all hope the the people of Iran speak as carefully on the phone (mobile or landline) as they do in their streets.

  127. YOU HAVE REMOTE ACCESS!
    SHUT THE SPY SYSTEMS OFF NOW!
    PEOPLE ARE BEING BRUTALLY SAVAGELY MURDERED!
    SHOT, STABBED, BEATEN, TORTURED, THROWN OFF BRIDGES!
    SWITCH THEM OFF !

    I BEG YOU, SWITCH THEM OFF!

  128. Nokia Research in US does not allow Iranian students to get internships with them because those students might transfer “technology” to Iran. And by “technology” they (you!) exactly mean Lawful Intercept.

    Now you *sold* that same technology to Iran? You are our enemy in 2 ways: discriminating against Iranian kids in US AND selling the technology you yourself consider dangerous to Iranian government. Shame on you.

  129. I have a Nokia phone and after I heard what has happen in Iran, I want nothing to do with your company. I work in human rights in China and guys, Censorship is Censorship! No matter how much you try to get around it. It is unacceptable…
    You have the ability to say no to any country that askes for such things. But you and Dell and others have only one thing on your mind $$$$$
    The rights of individuals is more important.

    SHAME ON YOU NOKIA!

  130. PEOPLE ARE BEING BRUTALLY SAVAGELY MURDERED!
    SHOT, STABBED, BEATEN, TORTURED, THROWN OFF BRIDGES!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Plis plis Nocia-zimens, plis shut off the Iran goverment!! You can zap them to marz very easy!!!

    Please, get real. This looks like people should use two levels of communication here; one for the educated and critical. Then, another one for some kind of sheep-herders from wherever that just won´t grasp the basics, ie. that it is not the phone manufacturer that is killing but rather the same kind of people who are bombing air planes etc etc.

  131. The fact remains that sanctions were in-place against the Iranian Regime and it’s my understanding that the German government raised concerns.

    About the statement: It was to NSN to weigh the benefit to the Iranian people? You were the only game in town?

    No United States corporation/company would be providing the service you provided Iran (I believe there is a damn good reason for that), this is a statement of fact. I live in the United States, I do not regularly see Siemens branded consumer products.

    But, I have heard the recent Siemens advertisements lauding the ‘Green’ Lighting Division. Propping up the public image -as it were. Frankly, absent something that represents an admission and apology, I find these advertisements highly offensive. Please spare me Siemen’s ‘green’ propaganda.

    Siemens has made inroads into the United States market with it’s Building Systems Division and ‘Green’ Lighting Division (barf alert). Who do you think specifies such equipment? Engineer’s are some of the most conservative people you meet, I know this, as I’m one of them. Do you think these engineers are going to specify Siemens equipment for projects? While Siemens technology is being employed to round-up protestors, protestors that looked to that technology for safety and as a means to freedom.

    Siemens and Nokia cast their lot with the Regime, I have no sympathy.

    New York, USA

  132. You told the Wall Street Journal:

    “If you sell networks, you also, intrinsically, sell the capability to intercept any communication that runs over them.”

    What does “intrinsically” mean? In fact, what does that entire statement mean? First you say there is an “intrinsic” capability and then you say there is no capability. What’s the real story?

  133. Pingback: Technology, Business, & Democratic Rights in Iran « CSR Law

  134. Who would make “dangerous” normal voice calls in Iran, or in any other country? I wouldn’t.

    Other means should be tried to be found to communicate safely.

    So, is the following more important than the voice calls:

    “Nokia Siemens Networks has not provided any deep packet inspection, web censorship or Internet filtering capability to Iran.”

    It seems to be the opinion of Nokia Siemens Networks.

    But still, is the monitoring system of voice calls still causing trouble for normal citizens of Iran? Should it be turned off? (I do not have any facts. Does someone else?)

  135. Nokia Siemens Networks is a joint venture of Nokia and Siemens. Fine. That makes Nokia Siemens Networks, along with Nokia and Siemens, complicit in the BUTCHERING OF INNOCENT IRANIANS!

    Meanwhile, while you enjoy spending the money you made on your contract with Iran, think about this man with an axe wound to his chest:
    http://threatswatch.org/rapidrecon/2009/06/unimaginable-horror-in-tehran/?iran

  136. They are not willing to prove they did not provide more than voice. That tells me they gave just what the ads said: Everything.

  137. NSN, I appreciate your candor and clear response to the news stories being related on the internet this week regarding your business involvements in Iran.

    It seems as though you provided nothing to the Iranians that wasn’t already a part of the G3PP protocols and only allows local voice monitoring. Assuming that capability cannot be removed without altering the ability of the entire network to interoperate with existing protocols in the EU/US then I think the NSN is not behaving irresponsibly in this case. That being said, I hope that NSN is doing their outmost to limit the capabilities of repressive governments in which it does business. That NSN does business in those countries and enables prosperity and freedom for the citizens of those countries is laudable and I appreciate it. You get a pass this time; we’ll be watching.

  138. majority of Iranians never forgive you!! you just want make money in any way, do not forget you have other markets….

  139. It’s very sad to see how ignorant people can be, especially idealistic ones. What do you think how many countries in the world are 100% democratic and respectful to human rights? So if (legal) business with Iran is unethical, isn’t it also unethical to do business with Saudi-Arabia (what about boycotting petrol?), China (try to boycott China where 50% of all you buy is produced), Morocco, Egypt, Pakistan and most of all Asian and African states? These all are states with similar levels of freedom, democracy and human rights. In an ideal world I may agree to boycott all these countries. In the real world however, every company that exclude these countries from their business will be dead immediately. That’s a dilemma. A company can and must act according to legal rules. Business with Iran is legal, including Mobile Networks technology (where “Lawful Interception” is an integral, standardized part). Indeed, you might feel idealistic when you dump your Nokia phone, but it turns out you are just stupid.

  140. Human rights violations are occuring by Iranian officials who are using the monitoring capabilities to locate Iranian citizens who are reporting facts to the International community. The government is tracking these people down and beating them to death or just taking them away never to be seen again. If Nokia has the ability to prevent this from happening, Nokia should take this opportunity to do the right thing in spite of the legal aspects. Isn’t it possible that the monitoring technology needs to be brought down for ‘routine maintenance’?

  141. You are a glorified weapons dealer.
    Allowing dictators to monitor and imprison/torture/murder those of differing opinions is no different than if you were selling rocket launchers to terrorists.

    I have destroyed your phone and want nothing to do with you.
    However I love my newLG enV(2) !!!

    *I realize that this comment wil not be posted (since after all you do support oppressing free speech) but i feel better for writing it.

  142. You might want to read this.
    http://blogs.yankeegroup.com/author/dvorhaus/

  143. I will never ever buy anything from Nokia or Siemens again. And I used to buy a lot, for me and for my company.
    By the way, I am not even Iranian.
    Shame on you Nokia & Siemens!

  144. By the way: Dont swear your innocence.
    Prove it: fire everyone involved in these deals and give your profits in iran to the victims of your deal.

  145. And apologize to every costumer you have (not just in Iran)
    Sometimes it’s better to apologize than to deny!
    Everytime you deny it, I feel more and more disgusted with your company.

  146. Hope you guys charged the Iranian government a lot of money cause you lost a lot of business because of this move.
    this move was despicable sale is an example of failed management.

  147. Pingback: Consumers Boycott Nokia, Siemens for Selling to Iran | Martial Sciences

  148. Yeah, you gave the Iranian people a way to comminicate. You also gave their oppresive government a way to hunt them down for it. Maybe you didn’t get the memo, you know, the one about how they don’t have free speech and are opressed out there. Willingly or not the people of Iran are paying for your blunder here.

    I agree with other assessments, you sold your technology to a dictatorship with really bad motives. Maybe you didn’t realize it – that could be your best excuse at this point – but it is still negligent of the consequences.

    You’ve lost any future business you may have garnered from me unless you find a damn good way to turn this around.

    -C-

  149. It is so great to see that here is so many great people who have noticed how Nokia has behaved with Iran. I assume that these same people are not using Google to any search because they are supporting internet censoring in China.

    Also you are not buying any jeans, T-shirt or computers because they have been made in China? No need to say human rights in there?

    I don’t say that we should not react anyhow to these issues, but as your own children, they are growing quite weird way if you say to other “No” and to other “Good Boy/Girl” when they are scratching your car.

    Or how should I understood you when you say “No, Nokia, No”?

  150. ……..”So given this Lawful Intercept is mandatory”

    So you are under the jurisdiction of Iranian laws and regulations. and you compare your compliance in Iran (which is brutal theocracy) with compliance to US & EU regulations (which are democracies).

    hmmm……..very convincing

    Just to be clear; no one had suggested that you provide Internet/web filtering monitoring.

    The only misinformation is coming from you by trying to put a neutral spin on what you have done. Repeating your stance does not make what you have done right.

    The monitoring and intercept tools was sold to the Islamic republic Government after the setup of the Mobile communication network.

    The Iranian People object to you selling the technology to enable a repressive regime to repress its people. Your company was not and can not be forced by the Iranian state communication company to provide monitoring and intercept tools.
    There are no international regulatory requirements for your company to provide this capability to a brutal and tyrannical regime like Iran.
    But of course that would require you to put ethics before your bottom line.

    As I said in my email, you have the blood of Iranian people on your hand.

    Iranians will do their best to encourage all freedom loving people in the world to boycott your products in order to hit you where it hurts (i.e your bottom line).

    When the Iranian people have managed to get the government of their choice, your behavior will not be forgotten.

  151. If you read though all these posts chronologically, one thing becomes clear:
    - Most of the earlier posts are from people who were shocked and outraged about NSN’s role in providing the mullahs with spying tools.
    - A LOT of the more recent posts appear to be from people rabidly defending NSN.

    Looks like the NSN PR machine is working overtime to make the comments “fair and balanced”. Do they think we’re idiots? Mr Roome, it’s so transparent when your own people start posting comments here to whitewash your misdeeds.

  152. A couple of simple points:

    ONE – call interception and monitoring is NOT an intrinsic part of any phone networks. This monitoring system was a separate technology which Nokia-Siemens sold to the Iranian government at their request. It was entirely possible for Nokia to sell the Iranians a cell phone networks which did not contain a tailored call monitoring and interception feature.

    TWO – just because it can be argued that perhaps some other sleazy company would have stepped in to provide the Iranian government with this tech if NSN had refused to do so does not make this right. If you were a manufacturer of chemicals and you knew that the customer you were shipping your chemicals to was likely to use them to kill people would it be alright for you to do so just because “someone else” would probably step in if you refused the sale?

    THREE the Iranian government is a disgusting and brutally repressive regime, people on this blog who claim that this is just the same as the occasional lapses by western governments when it comes to spying on their populaces need their heads examined. We are talking about a government which routinely has women stoned to death in public places for comitting adultery for God’s sake.

  153. What they mean is, it is technology that allows tracing and possible recording of voice phone calls. It is the same technology that, for example, recently allowed the phone recordings of Gov. Blagojevich in Chicago, which got him impeached. This is useful in situations where crimes are committed.

    But, the same technology which allows tracing of phone calls is what is now being used to trace calls of Iranians who’s only crime is exercising basic human rights. I don’t know about the internet tracing… is it possible that if Nokia Semens as a company isn’t allowing it, or if the call-tracing technology alone isn’t capable of it, then is there someone working on the sly? Maybe a student got in who claimed to not be Iranian? That’s how the 911 pilots got into flight training school……

  154. Pingback: links for 2009-06-26 « Sameer Padania

  155. Yes, impressive that you get the entire PR department working on this blog. All these “proud NSN workers” who blather about how your deal with Iran has saved the world, freedom and democracy… it does leave kind of a… bad feeling.

    Two things:

    It is NOT okay to do disgusting things “because if we didn’t, someone else would have done it”. You’re a company that tries to keep a good media profile, you have your hands in a lot of charities. You chose the moral standard, so don’t be surprised when people judge you according to it.

    It is NOT okay to allow total population surveillance systems in ANY country, no matter the “safeguards”. The state should never know everything about its citizens, because if it does, the state in question will be a tyranny before long. So, it’s a pathetic attempt to shift blame by saying “the EU and US do it, why shouldn’t Iran be allowed to”? Saying “it’s standard operating procedure” isn’t going to convince anyone either, it merely proves that it’s not a one-time slipup, it’s a systematic error of judgement and lacking morals.

    The unrest in Iran is being beaten down now. 70 professors have been taken into custody by the government. Most likely, strike two is in full swing. And to make a little quote: “Oh yes, there will be blood!”

  156. The statement you have made is just a lie just like the government of iran.

    when the dust settles all those that have been prisoned, torutured, beaten, dragged out of their homes in the middle of the night, will prove to the world that you are lying.

    several people have stated over the past two weeks of arrests that their online conversations, their emails, information sent out and uplodaded and long distance phone conversations where all recorded and used against them. including print outs of chat boxes with the outside world. please stop lying. tell the truth and help bring their sysetm down. do you think that the millions of iranians that are terrorized daily are greatful to you for giving them communicaitons networks. shame on you. ive been speaking to my family for the past few days and they are terrified to tell me how they really are while on the phone or the net. shame on your company. every iranian all 67 million of us inside and all the rest outside will remember this. once the dust settles nokia and siemens products across the board not only communications will have no place in our lives, homes and country. we will let the world know what you did to us. shame on you. how do you sleep at night knowing you helped them do this to us?

    snowy irani

  157. Pingback: Very useful links: OECD to Twitter, Google via Coca-Cola

  158. Dear Nokia Siemens CEO,

    While your technology is spectacular your morals and sense of corporate responsibility are spectacularly shameful. As a Canadian / Iranian we have chosen to Boycott your products and service for your inhumanity and reckless business decision to sell spyware to dictatorship countries such as Iran. You have blood on your hands sir and I hope the profits you made were worth it.

    I am outraged, discussed and appalled.

    Shahriar

  159. Shame on you! Blood is in your hands.

  160. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLZ5eNX1pOE

    click on this link & see the name of the person the blogger that the iranian regime caught and imprisoned in evin prison and then killed.

    how did they know who he was? how did they catch him adn monitor his online activity? if its only voice interception then how did they find him? there will be so many names in the coming weeks of arrests, toruture, deaths and missing persons whose only crime was to speak on the landline, mobile, send a text message or to go online and voice their opinion about something or talk to someone about their opinion.

  161. You have a big section on your website concerning ethical business practice. You might want to read it. But alas, money talks. And therefore I will boycott your company.

    I don’t know what is more disgusting – selling the censorship systems in the first place or claiming that it is just for “lawful interception” even when you sell it to dictatorships like the IRI.

  162. This is disgusting “lawfull intercept” – who makes the “law” in a extremist islamic dictatorship? The same people who hang 345 people a year, beat people for disent, dresscode violations or for owning a satelite dish.
    Nokia, Siemens & any other bastardized joint venture have just given the Islamic “Republic” of Iran a highly efficient & exceptionally powerfull tool to track, monitor & trap their citizens, especially those pursuing issues such as democracy, womens rights, human rights etc.

    One Question – does “lawfull intercept” exist in a regeime where citizens are hung without a trial? Ask your lawers that, and explain to me how if the Basiji can break into peoples homes while masked & without a warant, then beat them on the streets & detain them for unlimited times, how they would meet your “EU directives of use”
    I look forward to your Answers on these two matters!

    Rest well in the knowledge that good people are as of now, 28th June 2009, being tortured, beaten and terrorised and some will sadly eventually be hung or shot, without a trial or hearing.

    I belive we should SEND our NOKIA & SIEMENS phones BACK to the RETAILERS!

  163. I speak for all Iranians. Even those that say I don’t represent them.

    We will continue to buy Nokia products because without them the world would not have seen what was going on. It is not Nokia’s fault a corrupt regime uses the network to spy on people. That happens with all of the Cisco, Ericsson, and Nortel equipment as well. We only blame the evil people in power.

  164. I wonder how many people will be killed or tortured because of your so-called lawful interception money making business with Iran. I am banning all your products as of now. and make sure every one around me does the same. when it comes to money all governments are the same to you. shame on you

  165. Pingback: Selling Democracy - ctd. | Corpus Scriptorum Crumbum

  166. Nokia Siemens: yes you were right in making a network in Iran. Without it, there would be nothing for the people of Iran to get the word out. Your system works flawlessly. Enabling the people of Iran to network has been a powerhouse behind all that has been accomplished, which is a great deal. Your network and technology has exposed through the end users brutality, killing and oppression of the Iranian people by their own government. Thank you for your excellent work.

    Yes, every government requires some form of control. We in the US learned this through the Bush years with his administration spying on US citizens. It is still a matter of great debate in the US Congress. It was and still is a necessary technology used by unethical people for their own advancement or protection. Bush used it to make people paranoid, to intrude into people’s private lives and to further his distortion of the laws of the United States.

    Just5 as Twitter delayed upkeep futions to allow for exiting of data, all that was asked in my mail to Nokia was to quietly unlock the system. You made the keys so you have the ultimate control of your equipment. When technology is abused, it needs to be neutered or made ineffective. Monitoring of cell traffic by the Iranian government to locate and identify people whom they considered protestors with the intent of doing great bodily harm is a problem that needs to be addressed. I am confident that you (Nokia Siemens) will do right by the people of Iran and continue to support freedom. Hopefully this includes defeating the abilities of the NokiaSiemens network to identify people in the pursuit freedom. The Iranian Republic’s governing ayatollah has plainly stated his intent toward those that would question his authority. Helping to keep the messages going out and protecting mobile users from harm is a large task that I am sure you are capable of implementing.

    Thank you for your time and excellent assistance to the People of Iran. As you have said, without the system, no one would ever have had an idea fo the situation there.

  167. I’m with the ones amongst you who recognice the danger of this kind of technology in the hands of any government.

    It’s awful what’s going on in Iran right now, and though I’m not willing to blame it on just one company, I do think this particular company in question should have not sold the system to the iranian government (as mentioned before, there were indeed mobile phone operators and internet providers in iran before last fall!!! It’s not that the people in Iran lived in caves before nokia-siemens showed up with their “really you can only intercept voice calls it’s not so bad” -tecnology).

    But the problem here is not created by NSN, as they very clearly pointed out in their defence they acted according to the law, however sickening that is. The problem is structural, and it is, no matter how you twist or turn it, at least as bad a structural problem of the western society as Iran. There are some attempts by many governments and many non profit organisations in Europe and all over the world to bring some ethics into the trading of goods, but a much more organized attempts from the side of corporations to have none of it.

    A big part of the problem is that countries, corporations (and most of us individually)work for profit. It shouln’t be like that, in my modest opinion we should work to improve the quality of our lives as well as the lives of our family, the larger society and the planet. Money and materie should only be tools, not the goal. Apart from al that, nobody should ever use the law as an excuse for actions they know will cause suffering and/or death.

  168. That among all… your company is supporting dictatorships and Genocide came to me as a surprise…Outraged on you assisting Iranian Gov to kill innocent civilians….Shame on you…will boycott and lobby for people to know that by buying your products they support a corporation whom stands behind terrorist States….Shame on you.

    Arian

  169. To Zambam:
    Does unlawful detention apply solely to IRan or does the uncharged, kept forever persons in Guantanamo by the US government aslo fit into this category? I just wanted to be fair and clear.

    We can not speak from a bully pulpit when our states are also guilty of the same actions.

    I know this is not a forum but it is not the company that supplied the civilized world requirements, it ws all the governments combined. Iran and the US and probably a dozen more at any given moment are taking part in surreptious listening in and reading of private communications.

    Siemens does however hold the master key to these systems. That is the point of question at hand. Could, if it chose, unlock the ability of the Iranian government to use the equipment for hostile actions against the citizen’s of Iran?

    I will still depend on my Nokia phone and systems worldwide. It is a reputable strong company with a social conscience. That is alot more than many companies these days and I for one am glad they exist.
    Without them the people of Iran would be mute.

  170. Quote:
    “In most countries around the world, including all EU member states and the U.S., telecommunications networks are legally required to have the capability for Lawful Intercept and this is also the case in Iran”

    You just have placed an oppresive barbaric government like Irans in the same breath as European Union and United States. Would you have sold the technology to Hitlers Germany and Mussolini’s Italy?

  171. The whole discussion seems to be driven by sentiments. We need to be more objective here. When NSN (or any supplier) mentions that it is a “legal requirement” to provide basic monitoring system, the reference is not to the laws or legal system of a “regime”. Reference here is the laws of a country or state. We can be 100% usre that a change of regime in Iran (or any country) is not going to change this requirement. In fact, it is usually a requirement of a telecom service provider’s license.

    As someone already said here, it’s not the gun-shop to be hanged for every murder!

    Above all, the overall discussion (outside this blog) seems to focus on something else. Don’t let NSN do business in USA. This shouldn’t be a surprise move by some group after some news about yet another consolidation in telecom industry. And if I am not mistaken, when Alcatel-Lucent merger was being discussed, similar moves were observed to thwart a European company enter into US market & in a big way. No wonder, it seems to have less to do with Iran than the business/economic interests of US. Like it or not, we have examples where once the regime is changed with US help (or the interest has shifted before a regime change), it’s the people in that country who suffer more.

    Following comment (by NN) is interesting:
    “The decision on who should or should not come to power is the fundamental right of the electorate whether it be in Iran or anywhere else. Candidates win, candidates lose. Iran has to decide for itself.”

  172. The discussion is falling into silence here.

    You are going to take this with a sigh of relief. People aren’t screaming at you anymore, that’s much better.

    Wrong.

    This was your chance to tell people that you understand the magnitude of the error you have made. When this dies down, that window is closed. From that day, you will have to live with what you have done, and excuses will only be seen as pathetic attempts to free yourself from responsibility.

    Meanwhile, reports will come about the increasing retaliation of the iranian government against its people. The death toll will mount, and people will rightly consider you partly responsible.

    Way to go, Nokia. Set your spin doctors on fixing this… and good luck.

  173. Lame excuse.

    people are dying today because of you. Its just not right.

    You can make up any lame lame excuse as you like. I have always owned a Nokia phone, but now… its place is in the recycle bin.

    shame on you.

    have you no shame?

  174. 1. people in iran do not transfer videos or pictures from their phone, they do it on their computer!
    2. take your sim card out and then take pictures and videos and upload it via internet

    3. shame on nokia and their network for selling this system to the bloody Iranian government

  175. Here’s a good question I think Nokia should answer.

    Who Owns Nokia rights in Iran?

    Many Iranians already know the answer to this. I would like to hear it directly from Nokia’s mouth.

  176. Way to pass the buck. I’m not buying it and I’ll tell you what else I’m not buying, any of your products or any network services that utilize your products. you can hide behind the US and EU precedents of Lawful Intercept all you want. The difference between the EU and US Lawful Intercept laws is that the citizens of the EU and US have legal recourse to protect them from abuse of intercept technology. Iran has no such legal protections.

    What’s more history has shown us that the Iranian government will not hesitate to abuse monitoring technologies and questionable intelligence gathering methods to detain, torture, and kill “dissident elements”. You cannot ignore the lessons of history and I refuse to believe that the men and women in charge of making those high level decisions are ignorant of history.

    The real deal here is you dropped the ethical ball when you saw the money to be made by providing this technology. Every single Iranian arrested because of a voice intercept is on your head. The blood of those beaten and tortured and killed because of capability you provided to Iran is on your hands. I’ll not have it on mine. Since your products pervade virtually every US cellular network I’ll be calling my provider as soon as I post this and I’ll be cancelling my service indefinately. Enjoy your blood money.

  177. NOKIA SIEMENS are Supporting TERRORISTS

    You should make a difference between you customers. People in the US and Eu would NOT use the technology to kill people and prevent them of reporting. IRAN does. So NOKIA is supporting Terrorism!

    I was using Nokia all my life and got it for my parents, my wife and also friends of mine, because of working in a Cell phone store. Last week, we stopped using all of them, because I don’t want to support any kind of terrorism in the world.

    In the shop I don’t recommend Nokia phones anymore and neither my colleagues do. Even if pwople come to pick a Nokia we try to convince people of buying an other product. And once we tell them about Nokia’s support of terrorism in Iran, they don’t buy it anyway.

    Your are responsible of do many deaths in IRAN.
    YES you are.

  178. Okay but now, after this news has surfaced, I’d be curious to see how many Iranians continue to use this service.

    I’d wager to say MOST, because sometimes the BENEFITS OUTWEIGH THE RISK.

    There are Basij and other police forces all over the streets ‘monitoring’, yet still Iranians are out protesting!

    Boycott this company, see them leave Iran, and then see Iran become cut off from the world.. Although I don’t agree with it.. I still think it’s better than the alternative.

  179. What a response!!!! typical detestable corporate behavior where profits come first!!! If it causes death and torture, then so be it. And THIS is an old story, all the telecom companies meddle with privacy and they damn well shouldn’t.

  180. Nokia what you are doing is evil.

  181. Pingback: Technology, Business, and Democratic Rights in Iran — Update on Nokia Siemens Networks « CSR Law

  182. Love your PR monkeys posting comments. I’m still boycotting, because the only thing you care about is profit.

  183. We can always discuss about something that a regime did. However, it is strange that a particular supplier gets the heat for selling something that is sold all over the world. And right now, when you right these comments, your own great Govt. may as well be monitoring you!

    like it or not. Here’s another example.

    Let’s track down who provided all the equipment used to monitor any call in the US. Remember that these facilities existed even before 9/11 and we have now scores of people who, if didn’t lose their life, have definitely lost mental balance after being picked up by US security agencies, tortured for god know how many moths & then simply released as a “mistaken” arrest.

    And to add to it, when any country sells arms to any group in the world, they must be sure that all those rebels, extremists & dictators would uses guns to build shelters for poor? :)))

    Yes, let’s track all suppliers who manufacture, supply, install, commission and integrate such equipment anywhere in the world. Only then could we be sure that such devices are not used for hurting innocent people as there’s no guaranty that any future regime in any country would not misuse such monitoring devices.

    Anyone agrees?

  184. If you would boycott all of the corporations and companies that have knowingly dealt with “evil”, you would have to get rid of much of the modern and less modern technology.

    Next: Stop using oil and related products, quit smoking, decrease your meat intake and dump your stuff made in China to a junkyard. China uses the same brand routers as you right now for their part of the internet. Their surveillance tech is provided by western companies. Logically you should now quit being online to not support any of that and revolt against your own governments.

    You can always find a reason to boycott almost anything, because we as human beings are not perfect and we are illusioned by our own creations. It’s your right to express your opinion and you make your own choices. In the end the society commercializes your dissent and the cycle goes on.

  185. I totally agree with jay.
    If what NSN delivered Iran was a mobile network I don’t see why that shouldn’t have been done. It would have been anyway been done by another one, if it wouldn’t have been by NSN.
    To those of you advocating for isolation, I don’t see how that would be more productive. I do think the more connected the people in Iran are the better. The potential benefits of mobile communications also far outweight the disadvantages of the possibility of the government knowing where you are/what you say. Nobody is forcing you to use them, right?

  186. To all in boycott, why wouldn’t you boycott products made in USA? You have blood in your hands and all over your body!

  187. You’ve done nothing but blow “hot air” via the above press release/statement. Your audience is NOT stupid! Quit trying to distance yourself from what your technology and product have been used for in Iran. Quit trying to legitimize your technology by telling us what the end-user should be using the product for. . . YOU HAVE BLOOD ON YOUR HANDS! You’ve successfully contributed to the arrest, torture, beating – - and in some instances, MURDER – - of thousands of unarmed defenseless Iranian people. With your help, the spying, beating, torture and death continues day after day after day. . .

    SHAME ON YOU! SHAME ON YOUR GREEDY EXECUTIVES! SHAME ON YOUR BOARD OF DIRECTORS! AND, SHAME ON ALL OF YOUR STOCKHOLDERS WHO HAVEN’T ALREADY DUMPED YOUR POISONOUS STOCK!

    My family and I will never willingly purchase a Nokia/Siemens product again. . .

  188. I just learned about this today.

    Any American or EU based company selling products that even have the capability to be used in surveillance of private communications, when such surveillance would contravene existing rights and privacy laws in America or EU, should be charged under those rules.

    Collectively, those of us in these countries claim to stand for freedom and rights. We call on countries to stop killing others for expressing their beliefs, we say we want rights and democratic rule respected, yet at the same time sell them technology that can be used to crush the rights we claim to hold so dearly.

    What is wrong with you companies? A Siemens executive was just convicted of corruption and paying public officials here in Greece over 57 million euros to secure ownership of the public telecom.

    http://www.latimes.com/business/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-eu-germany-greece-siemens,0,6543692.story

    Nokia, Siemens, Nokia Siemens, Siemens Nokia or any other backwards or forwards arrangement of these words should be given a medal for ethical behavior and the forwarding of human rights agendas across the globe for being such a benevolent corporation.

    Thank you for providing the citizens of Iran with the ability to communicate, then be tracked and monitored, jailed, beaten, tortured and possibly killed for using that same equipment.

    Congratulations.

  189. Would also like to suggest that Mr. Boone make a quick flight over to Iran on the corporate jet to see what lawful surveillance looks like.

    These gigantic globalized corporations are completely out of control. The people running these behemoths are so completely out of sync with most people in the world. Your mathematical analysis of situations is appalling.

    Our standard of law (EU, USA etc) makes sense when it is interpreted and applied by a country that respects those standards. Iran does not respect these standards.

    Saying what you have done is OK because it complies with law and your code of ethics is irrelevant if a government, organization or other body has no intention of using your technology in line with the laws of your country or the ethics code of your corporation.

  190. The fact that Nokia Siemens said they would not sell this technology to china but has sold it to Iran says it all.. Greedy greedy capitalists who care for nothing but money. You have the audacity to claim that you have helped Iranian people too! wow. watch out for the boycott campaigns.

  191. I am boycotting all Nokia products. The explanations are quite simply baloney. You yourself admit that you have provided tools for monitoring local calls on fixed lines, and then try to make yourself look innocent by saying you brought connectivity to Iran. Well, the landline phone network has existed in Iran for decades. Your irresponsible actions are deplorable and are leading to unlawful arrests, prosecutions, and torture of innocent people.

  192. Pingback: US Senators Push Legislation to Punish Nokia Siemens Talkibie

  193. first you say you are a different company and not Nokia then you claim if Nokia technology were not there people outside wouldn’t get any info or people in Iran would not be able to communicate with anyone at all which is absolute rubbish

    things you ignore:

    - people in Iran do not use GPRS or 3G, they capture videos and images and then upload it via their home internet (dialup, DSL etc..)

    - Nokia is not the only mobile phone with camera in Iran!

    - You sold phone intercepting technology (to a terrorist regime) which has got nothing to do with Mobile Phone devices knowing that it will be used unlawfully against Iranians, it is clear that you didn’t care how it will be used yet you still talk about laws

    get your facts right Nokia-Siemens!

  194. Various organizations are making such kind of equipments and this is a genuine requirement of internet and information security now. But how someone uses this equipment this depends entirely on the consumer. At the time of buying the buyer does not inform the manufacturer about the exact use. So this is not a fault of manufacturer. Such kind of equipments is easily available in the market and is being made by hundreds of manufactures.

  195. It constantly amazes me the sheep who blindly follow the US Government…not everything they say is gospel people…use your own bloody minds and think for once. This is not about some IDS’ sold to Iran…this is about disinformation and building hatred towards a country as a whole in order to justify future offensives…sigh, nobody ever learns from history do they.

  196. The hypocrisy of the anti-NSN posters is amazing… most sound like typical liberals. NSN provided standard equipment..nothing special, nothing with DPI. How many of you will be boycotting google/android? Google VOLUNTARILY handed over the names/IP of every person who searched for things related to freedom and those who attempted to meet and coordinate to protest their government via the internet. Not one peep from the liberals. Not one peep calling for boycotts of China after Tieneman Square. Now, suddenly, you are interested in human rights? Or is it because Google is a ‘good’ company (ie. Donates to far left wing causes) that you are willing to turn a blind eye ? And according to the left wing in the United States, Iran should never have been named in the ‘axis of evil’…now you claim they are a terrorist regime? Get consistent.

  197. Saying that Nokia had no idea the “consumer” (the Iranian Government) would misuse this technoogy is borderline moronic, not to mention insulting.

  198. Your statement is a lie
    With Credit to Ariel Silverstone:
    Central monitoring systems as described here, do monitor and do have some control ability over calls. These systems most certainly have the capability to deal with international call monitoring. Those systems, while technically not performing “deep packet inspection” do have the capability to do voice analysis and recognition and it is a technology-trivial matter to add this functionality on.
    Today’s 3rd generation cellular technology does not, for the most part, distinguish between voice and data. While some services such as MMS are separate, Nokia-Siemens should clarify that it does deal with data-streams that include both voice and data. They travel on the same channels, and the signalling data for both is handled through the same switches and control software.
    As for the term Data Monitoring, since most traffic is seen as data, it does get monitored. Further, to perform some of the services, such as billing for attachments or allowing filtering against malware, you could state that the software does, indeed, do “deep-packet inspection”. Data, including data needed for billing, which is kept for some time everywhere that it is collected, does indeed get monitored.

  199. Siri – Before pointing out our statement is a ‘lie’ you should have realised that Ariel has actually acknowledged a correction we pointed out to him in his analysis.

    In Iran, we only supply ‘traditional’ telecoms, in this case, GSM mobile. No 3rd generation capability at all. The voice call intercept capability is required by the terms of the license for Iranian telecoms operators, and is a feature built into the voice switches in all GSM networks.

  200. Iran has been a police state that systematically violates human rights. Providing any intercept capability to such a state aids and abets repression.

  201. JUST BECAUSE SOMETHING IS LAWFUL DOES NOT MAKE IT RIGHT. YOUR COMPANY IS ONLY INTERESTED IN PROFITS AND FOR THAT YOU WILL PAY. NO ONE IN MY FAMILY WILL EVER BUY ANOTHER PRODUCT OR SERVICE OF YOURS AND I HAVE ALREADY HAD 7 OF MY FRIENDS AND FAMILY MEMBERS GET RID OF YOUR PRODUCT. I DO NOT SEE HOW YOU CAN SLEEP AT NIGHT. MAY GOD FORGIVE YOU FOR THE LIVES THAT HAVE BEEN LOST BECAUSE OF YOUR GREED!

  202. First apologize my pour English.
    Then: I appreciate your endeavor to bring communication to everyone worldwide including Iran. And yes i do know that many of the news from Iran is spreading worldwide because we have Nokia (or any other) communications technologies here. But I have to remind u that u have sold interception tech to the government, not to the poeple. You call it “lawful interception”, but u have to know that there is no such thing as LAW here in Iran. So the next time u r selling anything to anyone, think again and be sure that u know u r selling what to who.

  203. Dear Nokia,
    I am not going to call you names, I am sure you know what you have done is unethical to say the least. There are people in jail in Iran being treated in the most in-humane fashion by your business partner (Islamic Republic). These people were “lawful”, and were peacefully demanding their rights – as evident in the news from Iran. It was the regime (your business partner) that was brutally beating them. Now, they have started to hang them. Many of these people were your customers.

    For the sake of humanity, you have to find a way to stop your system being used to catch, torture, and kill people. If there is no work around, then stop service and support.

    You have to do something to earn back our respect.

  204. How about donating your profit from this deal to the families of those killed in the protests?

    I see a lot of spin control on your sites – but little makes sense. E.g. If this capability you sold the regime was so essential (‘central’) for the network – how come it was only recently installed? Did the network only work by accident prior to the installation of this capability? Am I confused – or did Nokia-Siemens actually contravene the UN sanctions (inadvertently presumably). If this were to be the case, then I presume that you would not be able to honor the remainder of your contract, no matter how lucrative it were.

    I also see a massive blogging effort, presumably with all of your marketing department involved, to adjust the ‘spin’ on the web. I suspect that your efforts here will be counter productive as you will be seen as manipulative.

    I recommend that you provide clear information to the public on precisely what was sold to Iran, what the cost was, what the maintenance plan is, what the term of the contract is, what the profit on the deal is, and all other details associated with the contract (e.g. the reasons for the arrest of Nokia-Siemens employees in Iran). Please also be open about all other countries to whom you have sold such equipment.

    In this case – could this equipment be used for military purposes? Presumably this cannot be the case as such sales are banned at present. However, I presume that such systems can equally well handle military communications traffic – could you comment on this in the light of the current UN sanctions?

    I will most interested to see if my comments are deleted.

  205. Ben,

    WHY did the purported fact that this surveillance system only inspects “voice only” come out just now? Why didnt YOU, when speaking officially to the WSJ, mention that it was capable of monitoring voice only ?

    WHY is the monitoring center that Nokia Siemens Networks sold to Iran described in a company brochure as allowing “the monitoring and interception of all types of voice and data communication on all networks”?

    Iran uses digital cellular technology, like the rest of the world. HOW can you say it examines only voice, if all voice travels as digital packets?

    http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/06/wsj-nokia-and-siemens-help-iran-spy-on-internet-users/

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124562668777335653.html

  206. Hmmm…my comments from yesterday were not posted. I therefore suspect that all comments are not posted and only shills are posted. Please do not hesitate to let me know if I have this wrong.

  207. Eduardo – Because voice is a separate channel in a GSM network. There’s no combined voice and data packets. It’s traditional mobile technology.

    The company brochure described a set of potential attributes (mixed with a certain amount of marketing hyperbole). Any system is designed to a certain specification. In Iran, it is solely capable of the voice monitoring, as required by MCCI to operate.

  208. Thank you for posting my comments. Some questions.

    I have seen the sale of your intercept system compared to the sale of bullets, as in: ‘bullets don’t kill people, people kill people’.

    In the light of this excuse, can you explain then why this system was sold when arms sales to Iran are embargoed by UN sanctions?

    Which governmental bodies approved the sale?

    Can you indicate what the sale value was?

    Were any ‘sweetners’ paid in order to procure this sale? (cf. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122919269803304383.html#articleTabs%3Darticle)

    Do Siemens-Nokia maintain the system for the Iranian government?

    Is maintenance done on site or remotely?

    How long is the contract term?

    Nokia-Siemens comment that all mobile phone communications rely on the system. Can you comment on how the mobile phone system was able to operate in Tehran prior to the deployment of the ‘lawful intercept’ system?

    Can you comment on whether the system can be used to discern video traffic based on the amount of data traffic? (This does not imply deep packet inspection, however, does mean that the ‘authorities’ can assess the probable use of a customer telephone.)

    Can you comment on the arrest of your employees in Iran? Was pressure applied to extend the capabilities of the system to those that were promised by your sales people?

  209. I’m really disappointed by Nokia Siemens Network or anything your are calling yourself. Its shameful for such a big and reputable company to sell a so called ” Lawful Intercept capability System” to an UNLAWFUL government. Even if it only monitors voice communication IT SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN SOLD TO THIS NONE DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENT.
    CAN YOU UNDERSTAND!

    I’M NOT DISCUSSING QUANTUM PHYSICS

  210. I’m sorry. Just because something is legal and profitable for your company doesn’t make it morally or ethically right. You gave the Iranian government the ability to intercept phone calls between private citizens knowing that this government was slaughtering its people in the streets.

    Greed doesn’t wear well on anyone and it doesn’t spin well on any company. I’m sorry you made the choice you did, and I’m sorry innocents no doubt were arrested and imprisoned as a result. I fear this decision is one you will regret for a very long time. I would have respected your management more had it admitted that its action was an error it regretted.

    I do hope that sooner rather than later NSN will look past greed and the bottom line and rediscover humanity. And I dare to hope that it will reintegrate it into NSN corporate decisions. This was a bad decision and no amount of “lawful” or spin is going to make it a better one. Accepting responsibility might help repair, but only if it is accompanied by genuine contrition.

    Without that, I fear NSN’s future appaars rather grim. Worse, I worry about the spiritual implications on those who made and stand by this decision knowing what resulted.

    We do reap what we sow.

    I will pray for you and your company. Life without humanity is grueling.

    Blessings.

  211. It is and stays an immoral business deal.
    I will boycott all the products from Nokia and Siemens and will advice all my fiends and acquaintances to do the same. The blood of the innocent people are on the hands of the people, who provide this technologies to the dictators.

  212. A new business model for NSN:

    How about a cell phone, which can destroy the owner remotely?

    This way once a IMEI/SIM is located, the “lawfull”
    Iranian government can with your “lawful” technology, disable the “unlawful” demonstrators…

    Nokia
    Disconnecting lives…

    Nokia/Siemens
    SHAME ON YOU!!!

  213. I just want to say that, You don’t anything for people who use their cell phone to take photos and movies or call to outside Iran, These people are brave hearts despite your partnership for some more dollars(Euros!!!)with murders.

  214. You know your equipment is being used for horrible purposes. Make a statement that you will not support the products from a maintenance standpoint and will not sell additional products or services to the Iranian government.

    That would be smarter.

    Thank you for narrowing my options in cell-phones. I now have one less brand to choose from. I can make my decisions faster.

  215. Pingback: Timothy Karr: Helping Iran Target Iranians « Daily News

  216. Are you going to answer any of the questions above – or are you now moving on to the next deal?

  217. We believe you (try to!) I guess the expectation that you put oppressive governments such as those of Iran and China in a separate category and cater a different kind of technology to them – one that does not include monitoring abilities that would let them spy on innocent civilians – is too much wishful thinking. At least you’re right about your company’s role in providing an outlet and way of communication for the Iranian people.

  218. I am one of thousands victims of your lawful monitoring capabilities that sold to Iran’s Intelligent service !
    Thank you dear NSNs !

  219. I am an Iranian living in Iran using a Nokia handset and I know that much of the backbone of our cellular network is built by Nokia, Siemens, and Ericsson.

    First I want to thank you for your elaboration about the case. Second I want to remind you that even though the governing regime in Iran was somehow lawful until June 12, 2009, it is not all the same after that date. We witnessed a coup d’etat on June 13, and the current government is by no means lawful. Therefore, we will not tolerate your future trades with Iran. We ask you seriously to boycott the Iranian government and all its mobile operators from now on.

  220. What the hell are you doing here in Iran? If you believe on democracy why you are helping the dictators to suppress the people of my country???? If you boost them, then they will be able to blast Europe one day. So don’t be silly and come to your senses. Try to respect and observe the primary principles of human rights. We are the passangers of a hyjacked plane named “Iran” and these days you are helping the skyjackers not the defenceless people. SHAME ON YOU the bloody Nokia.

  221. To be honest i think if your are not able to switch off that capability remotely there is a way out, the best solution for the mess which you caused is giving out an encryption software free of charge for Iranian people capable of encrypting voice and SMS and data services there are some commercial ones like phoncrypt and securegsm in the market now. with that you can save your face otherwise you have to wait for some huge anti Nokia waves within your lucrative mobile markets.

  222. I think instead of bringing excuses and justifying your wrongdoings first apologize from affected people then find a solution for those poor people in Iran who are under daily middle age like religious and political scrutiny by your sold technology to the evil regime of Iran.

  223. Western countries do not sell any kind of aircraft because the probability of using the technology peacefulness. So, if you have provided the cell phones to Iran (without any support to Iranian people), you had not the right to sell the monitoring capability to Iranian brutal government. I am going to boycott all you products

  224. I have been using Nokia almost for 10 years. Sorry to say that we Boycut your products from now on. By we, I mean myself, my family members and relatives and friends who have a faith in humanity. We loved your cell phones Nokia, but we hate the rationale of Nokia managers that lead them to sell those softwares to Iran. You are done. I dumped my 20,000 shares of Nokia in NYSE too.

  225. I am just writing to tell you a real story. About 2 weeks ago, at about 11 pm , the Iran government soldiers have arrested my brother from our home in Tehran.
    After one week we found him in Evin prison (One of the fright fullest prisons in north of Tehran).He was bitted and torched seriously. I tried to find a way to talk to him but it was impossible. But I had a chance to ask some question about his case from one the prisons officers. He told me most of these guys which are in the prison now are the victims of mobile communication overhearing.
    So you guys in Nokia Siemens, you are responsible for the blood of innocent people which are dying in the prisons because of the dirty technology which you sold to Iran government.
    My brother is still in the prison.

  226. You sold eavesdropping equipments to the Iranian illegal government and now you say ‘It’s legal action’!!! It doesn’t make any sense to me.
    You’re responsible for every future dictatorship.

  227. Dear Mr Roome,

    You’ve already done what you thought might be correct at that time but please dont defend what you’ve done and furthermore dont mention any reasoning for what you’ve done for Iranian governments,you said you brought connectivity for Iranian,OK you did it and Im pretty sure Iranian paid you more than what you earned in other countries in the world but let me tell you this how do you feel when you dont feel secure at all when you are in the internet sending SMS talking with some one on the phone,and know that all of your calls and SMS are monitored and all the emails you send and recieve will be monitored too now tell me what is the value of great connectivity which you brought to the Iranians? We dont need your connectivity any more please collect them and go to h..

  228. I have gone through all explanations provided by NSN. I could see no apologetic comment by NSN and no sign of a promise of not repeating this kind of deal in the future. This is appalling. PLEASE HEAR THIS: there is a difference between IRAN and EU Countries. A huge difference! The same technology can be used differently and create much different results. It is the responsibility of the technology supplier to differentiate and make a sound decision. If you don’t do this you can justify selling chemical or biological technology to produce chemical or biological weapons to be used against peaceful demonstrators! Sounds irrelevant? Read twice!

  229. I , my husband and my son are boycotting all Nokia/siemns products.my son persisted on changing his cell-phone so we go to buy another one(except Nokia)this afternoon.

  230. WE NEVER BUY ANY NOKIA SIEMENS PRODUCTS

    WE HATE YOU & WE NEVER FORGET YOU

    SHAME ON YOU !!!

  231. Pingback: philosecurity » Blog Archive » Thinking Positively about Mass Surveillance

  232. Most of the Nokia cell phones will be turned off soon.

  233. for a second ,just a second put yourself in our shoes: you just want to breath ,you are fighting for your basic rights, you shout, you protest, they hit you by baton,they break legs, hands, heads,they shoot people, the girl next to you is shot and killed but you still fight. they follow you,they identify and find you,they attack your house and break the door, they beat your mother ,your father gets a heart attack and dies in front of your eyes,you go to custody and become tortured. the truth is NSN has helped them to find the protesters.
    now NSN have so much money by selling our blood! congratulations!

  234. i think the words you have used in your essay is just excusing,you are sharing in a crime if you are sure a man is killer and you sell him a sword

  235. I shame to use your products.
    At least you can support people of Iran and promise to don’t get this mistake again. People think you are just caring about money and market share.
    Down with dictatorship and censorship.

  236. 1- “Needs to be weighed against the huge empowerment that connectivity brings to ORDINARY IRANIANS.”(?!)

    “Between persons of equal income there is no social distinction except the distinction of merit. Money is nothing: character, conduct, and capacity are everything. There would be great people and ORDINARY PEOPLE and LITTLE PEOPLE, but the great would always be those who had done great things, and never the idiots whose mothers had spoiled them and whose fathers had left them a hundred thousand a year; and the little would be persons of small minds and mean characters, and not poor persons who had never had a chance. That is why idiots are always in favor of inequality of income (their only chance of eminence), and the really great in favor of equality.” George Bernard Shaw

    2- “It does have an important role in fighting crime”.

    And when the State becomes the worse criminal?

  237. you are all companions in iranians killing.
    Shame on you.

  238. Dear bloggers above,

    it seems many of you would prefer one of the two options:

    a) complete boycott of Iran = no mobile phones in Iran, no mobile phone pictures on what’s going on = nothing gets out – nobody knows what happens, and Irani police use they own gear anyhow to take photos and films …

    b) supply of Iran mobile network infrastructure by another party, who is as well bound by local regulations e.g. by Huawei from China who are instrumental in building infrastructure also in China for agreeable and not so agreeable purposes.

    … Take both of the above options in context of supplied mobile networks equipment by Nokia Siemens Networks and make your choice … whether there is any truly tangible difference to the people of Iran.

  239. “It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity” – Albert Einstein

  240. You have the blood of demonstrators and torture victims on your hand. Shame on you Siemens-NOKIA

  241. Shame on you , you are proud of it!!!! , to be the spy !!!!
    Down with Iran government and companies like you , bye Spy ……..

  242. Dear Sir/Madam!

    Thank you for your kind information!
    But there is a thing.
    We are living here, in Iran!! Could you understand
    that providing these dictators with such technology
    will lead to a hell?

    I feel like a movie “LORD OF WAR”

    When it’s about money any human feels and behaviours have to change! no matter to what.

    Shame on us.

  243. I am very sad that in NOKIA SIEMENS busuness

    activities in Iran there is not any credit for

    human qualities. So I pledge as far as possible

    don,t purchase products of this Company.

  244. Dear NSN (Iranians Telecommunication hero)

    Don’t worry at all. You (NSN) will be the winner of all Iran’s Telecom tenders without any compromises from now on, just don’t forget to Double your profit. say it to all of your share holders it’s a relief.
    If any of company’s major share holders uncomfortable about bloody money, refer them to your Iranian host to give them a total solution. They have minimum 30 years experience to wash and clean any type of dirty money, or simply ask your local bank.

  245. I strongly believe that the whole world has to Stop buying Nokia Products, these people are blind when it comes to money, it’s blood money! and those who sold such technology to Iran’s Regime are also murderers of innocent people. shame on you.

  246. Shame On u….

  247. Nokia-Siemens, I asked several questions on the 8th of July – there have been no answers. Please answer the questions.

  248. I think when Khamenie would be justice, the world should justice Nokia Siemens too. They helped Iranian goverment to kill and turture Iranians.
    They are gulthy for what they did to Iran
    and Iranians.

    STOP BUYING NOKIA NOW!!!

  249. I would like to paraphase an old saying:

    It’s impossible to explain something to someone whose livelihood depends on not understanding it.

    You admit that the technology you provided can be misused. You simply think that the good outweighs the bad.

    How about providing technology at no cost that helps people protect themselves against the bad uses of your technology?

    Until I see evidence that your company and related companies (such as Nokia itself) are reacting to this issue in a practical way that helps people preserve their freedoms, I am not going to add to the four Nokia items that I purchased and won’t purchase any related stock. (Written on my N800.)

    Gene Venable

  250. shame on u!
    your sauport dectator in all the world

  251. I will never ever use Nokia and Siemense products, that is very simple rule in game, if you want more in unfair manner to humanity you have to pay for it. Now a lot of company offer similar products but we have used Nokia products for reliability, but from now at least for me and and people around me and my company we change our policy. That is good chance for newcomers in this industry and in future that will be great threat for those who wants to destroy our privacy.
    I have never thought that Nokia,’Connecting People’ change to ‘Sping,disconnecting,… people’.

  252. once i used to adore nokia as a nice powerful company.
    and now. i hate you. as you use iranians as a victim to prosper in your business.
    i hate you all. and i`m going to break my nokia phone.

  253. Nokia/Siemens
    SHAME ON YOU!!!

  254. We will stop buying any product from nokia , ans siemens , they support dictator regime to kill people and put in jain many of our genius man and woman, we are averse of nokia.
    This is my suggest to nokia, You have to know iran regime is different that othe in world , they can kill many people without any reason just to continue dictatorism.

  255. I am living in Southern California, and I promise you (Nokia Siemens) to talk to at least 100 persons who do not know what you have done with this deal. I promise you they will be all ashamed of they did and they are gonna tell others. Good reputation at least in this part of the world!

  256. Shame on you to join dictatores.
    Iranian people will never forget what you did.

  257. I am very sad

  258. Nokia you are not connecting people
    You are spying on people
    you are killing people
    you hands are in our sisters and brothers blood

    shame on you nokia

  259. shame on you.you provide spy tools for a mad regime.that threat whole of world by nuclear bomb asap.kill the innocent people in the streets . then find other people on the internet by facilities THAT provided by you.you associate in killing of our innocent people UNDERSTAND THIS !

  260. you are all companions in iranians killing.
    why??????????????
    do you know NEDA????
    do you know SOHRAB???
    and do you know over 40,000,000 mio. young people in iran???????
    shame on you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  261. Just for voice control as in the EU and the US? Don’t you forget one thing? Those countries are DEMOCRATIC countries unlike Iran. Your assistance helps that Dictatorial regim to identify and kill innocent people.

  262. shame on you

  263. As an iranian i fully appreciate those nice, liberal and democrat dear foreigners who left a negative comment on this disgusting action of nokiasiemens.
    We just look for democracy and freedom and you see they convict and kill us. and nokiasiemens helps them. What`s our sin? looking for peace and freedom?

    My N95 Nokia mobile phone was the last nokia product I bought.

  264. SHAME ON YOU.YOU HAVE SOLD YOUR HUMANITY TO MONEY.

  265. “Nokia Siemens Networks has provided Lawful Intercept capability SOLELY for the monitoring of local voice calls in Iran”. Oh, really?!? Maybe it sounds lawful to you but I personally found it very disgusting. I really enjoyed the comments that people put up there and like many of my friends and family in Iran and here in the US I’ve already joined the boycott. I threw away my $100 Nokia phone last week and like one other guy mentioned I’m contacting every sports team and venue around the area that I am living to demand that they dump you as a sponsor and remove the Siemens/Nokia names from sporting venues and events and I’ll use this article as a proof of my point.
    Shame on you.

  266. It’s a shame that those companies (Nokia & Siemens) which have are founded in free and democratic countries make their money with preventing people of other countries , like Iran, to obtain freedom and democracy.

  267. Is Nokia going to be able to get ride of this badge of shame any time soon? i doubt it. I will try to make sure it will hang next to their name as long as possible.
    I get the part that you want to make money so give Iranians the chance to communicate. And you made good money off of that already. So why did you have to go on and sell the government technology to be able to tap into peoples lines? Don’t people in communication business read the papers? don’t they know what kind of government rules in Iran? Don’t they know this costs people in Iran their freedom if not life? How much money did Iranian telecom offer for all of this?
    I for one am done with Nokia. Neither me nor my any person that i have influence over their opinion is going to buy Nokia products from now on. No go calculate if it was worth it?

  268. Im a student from Shiraz, Iran. I was in university dormitary when the antiriot police and Basij militia entered the rooms and destroyed all of our properties. I decided to distribute some picture through internet but due to your help to the government I was afraid to do that and I was oblijed to erase all the pictures. they could show the reality of the brutality of this goverment to the world. so I ask the people around the world to stop buying this brand . Me and all my family and friends decided not to buy your products from now, and I wish this will happen in other countries too.

  269. It’s a shame that those companies (Nokia & Siemens) which are founded in free and democratic countries make their money with preventing people of other countries , like Iran, to obtain freedom and democracy.

  270. Money…Money…Money!—–Must be funny!……
    …..Isn’t it?
    If I were u, I get those Dollars to the church, to buy some peace!!!!
    Don’t forget the Energy low:”Energy doesn’t disappeare!”
    wait for return it in ur company!
    SHAME ON YOU!!!!!!!!!

  271. It is not good excuse ..that you have explained..you told we are selling this not only to Iran but also to all around the world …!!!! So it is so much worse ..
    you and other company like you ,,as telling in all your pub. ..for connecting people not to disconnecting them
    from their family and sending them to prison..you all hypocreat….

  272. Shame on Nokia Simense co. I am `sure that you that work in this spying company have red hands after Iranian kaos in this days. Iranian young peoples blood can been seen in your desktop.

    Skam på dere.

    Shahram fra Norway

  273. Please do something positive. like helping Antifilter software like freegate or your-freedom.de
    you should regain you reputation.

  274. Iranina die because all their airplanes are so old and all instruments for their repair are banned, on the other hand Nokia is selling such brutal technology to Mollahs. the question is why ??

  275. Shame on you!!!my friends and I broke our Nokia cell phone and keep motivateing people all over the world not to bye and use Nokia and zimens Products.
    Again Shame on you!!!

  276. Shame on you!!!

  277. In your message I see a simple reasoning that selling interception devices is labetween lawful in EU and you base your arguments on this.

    I hope that you have had any time to see how people are tortured and killed on the streets of Iran these days.

    I think your least responsibility as a company is to give detailed information about sold product to Iran. At this time there are lots of rumors around your deals with Iran. Doing this will clarify all misinformation on the net, will also help iranian to be aware of posibble dangers that they might have from iranian intelliegene and malitia services which use your products, and last but not least will hopefully increase you revenues again in Iran.

    Making money is not the goal, benefit of your business comes only from safely connecting people. Please do not try to convince yourself or the media that iranian government is comparable to EU countries,

    Regards,
    From Holland

  278. I have made it a part of my daily tasks to spread the word that Nokia is a partaker in censorship and a supporter of a dictatorship regime. The only way to remedy this is to not buy Nokia products and services. Only a boycott of Nokia products/ services will make sure they hear our disgust with what they’ve done. If they’ve aided one dictatorship, the Islamic Republic, they’ll aid others. Everyone MUST boycott Nokia and Siemens products/ services.

    Nokia has blood on their hands.

  279. Shame on you!

    First, because of you poor answers, which are the same all the time. I assume you just click on your repeat button all the time.

    Second, don’t even think of comparing the Islamic Republic with democratic ones in Europe or anywhere else. In democratic countries the government is accountable for its actions. The IR has shown that they can do whatever they want, without answering questions. That’s not someting new, it’s always been there.

    Third, you tell me what the net-profit is for the 2,500 (or more..?) prisoners who were arrested in the last few weeks. During the interrogations, the interrogators let the poor kids listen to their own conversations, inbetween the torture sessions. And right now they’re shut off from the whole world and no-one can hear them screaming…
    So where is their net-benefit, mister Roome? If those poor kids on the streets at least knew that they were spied upon all the time, they would have been more cautious in their conversations. Making that info about spying well-known to the people was the least your company could have done.

    And right now, despite your wonderful gift of mobile technology to the Iranian people, the IR can shut the whole network down with a click. And even if it’s working right now, you tell me how I can contact my imprisoned friends..? Strangely they don’t pick up their phones anymore. I hope (for you) that they’re still alive. Sleep well tonight.

    Hamid from the Netherlands

  280. Enjoy your bloodmoney, but i promise you this: the people of iran will never forget.

  281. Stop buying Nokia and Siemens Products, These two companies dont care if they are making money with a terrorist government like the one in Iran. They dont care if people in Iran OR any country have to pay with theier lifes as long as Nokia and Siemens are making money.

  282. 1- First of all NSN ought to have had the sense to make the distinction as to WHOM they are providing what kind of service. Providing this kind of service to a brutal and rogue state IS ABSOLUTELY INDEFENSIBLE and certainly not similar to providing it to a country like Sweden or Brazil or … .

    2- Secondly, it is pretty silly for you people to try to credit yourselves with the videos taken by the Iranians. I assure you, had it not been a nokia handset, it would have been a Motorola or Sony or LG or … to facilitate those videos.

    Shame on you for attempting to gain undue credit after such a heinous miscalculation.

  283. Dear all,

    I believe everyone with minimal good sense is sad and deeply concerned with what is happening in Iran. From the little knowledge I have, I always saw the Iranians with one of the richest source of highly educated people in the region. Unfortunately this very rich pool of resources is repressed by the current authority instead of being its pride.

    We could debate long regarding whether or not a company should do business with or embargo certain regime. Also on this specific case on how NSN managed the business and the communication. Or again on the validity of the different standards the industry has to follow. The matter of the fact is burning the phones to buy a competitor one is pointless. The technology currently under the spotlight is on all existing telecom infrastructures deployed by all telecom vendors and will work the same whatever mobile terminal used.

    What I am saying here is if the boycott is to punish a company, it’s your right but why just that one? If it’s to feel safer… I don’t know what to suggest but that action won’t help.

    Whishing you all well deserved better time

  284. Citizens of Iran have started to boycott products of Nokia. Demonstrators have told that the Government of Iran had information about their text messages and phone calls (it has been in News). This is how normal Iranians see the situation: Nokia, Siemens and NSN help the Government.

    It seems the Government of Iran uses the pure voice call monitoring functionality for wrong deeds.

    Do Nokia, Siemens and NSN admit that? Don’t they publicly announce NSN does not accept the Government of Iran uses the provided functionality wrongly, for evil and totalitarian deeds.

    Definition: Functionality to monitor voice calls and SMS messages, etc.

    What must NSN etc. immediately start to do to show they do not accept the wrong deeds?
    Would they at least publicly announce NSN does not accept it. They are participants, so they should speak up.

    NSN etc. should immediately show, to the citizens of Iran and to the world, that NSN does not accept their monitoring functionality is used in a totalitarian way!

    Should the monitoring functionality be switched off?
    Is there any way to make distinction when the Government plans to use it wrongly?

    Will NSN provide or offer the functionality to other problematic countries in the future? Or do you announce you will change your ways? And define: how.

    Ericsson, Motorola, etc. should do the decision and announcement together with you. It is not enough or even efficient if only NSN promises something. Other companies are part of this Issue too, not only NSN. The decision should be made together with other dealers.

  285. Here again.

    Nokia keep defending equipting mullahs by a kind of IT that uses to smash Iranian decents and protesters. Please stop the nonsense. Even in a business sense you should act differently. you just repeating that every country does that, Iran and Mullahs are not ” another country” and “another business as usual” they are killers and you wanted or not their helpers with practically spying technology. If you ( Nokia and Siemens) not wanted to be boycotted, better do better than this dont think people are stupid.

  286. Well done goons.
    People have been arrested because of you and your company being idiots.
    And now,instead of apologising and admitting you did wrong you blatantly lie to us?!
    Well guess what?!
    Nokia and siemens screw you and all your products i am never going to buy again.

  287. Speachless (or should we say Nokia-Siemens shill?), I guess that the point is that all the other companies selling electronic products in Iran do not aid and abet in the torture of innocent people, profit from that activity, and piously describe those acts as ‘lawful’.

    Hopefully Nokia and Siemens (and every possible subset and combination) will experience a richly deserved democratic boycott in business worldwide

    I believe that your company is even now providing technical support for the Iranian ‘authorities’ under a maintenance contract. Can you comment on this?

    By the way, I asked several questions on the 8th of July – there have been no answers. Please answer the questions.

  288. NSN does not make cell phones so why to destroy those? If you dislike NSN you should change operator in case they are using NSN products in their network. Although you don’t get the pleasure of destroying things in the name of “freedom”, but that should be left for real experts anyway like USA. If only people of Iran would be as lucky as people of Iraq, and would get gift of freedom from USA. Then companies with higher moral could also do business in Iran!

  289. The thing is corporations the size of Nokia must acknowledge responsibility of consequences of their decisions regardless of how lawful they may be.

    And while it’s true that the network helped as a temporary means to get the information out, there is no doubt that it also helped crack down on Iranian people.

    By some accounts more than 50 million mobile phones are in use in Iran, that is one big market. So instead of posting faceless, legal siloloquys about how lawful their actions were, perhaps the least Nokia could do is to offer a sincere apology to the people of Iran.

    People were tracked down, beaten, arrested, tortured, raped and killed. And your lawful system helped make all that possible. The least you can do is say you’re sorry!

  290. Source: The Washington Times
    EXCLUSIVE: Siemens risks losses due to Iran ties

    Los Angeles to vote on transit contracts

    One of the world’s largest engineering firms, Siemens, could lose hundreds of millions of dollars in sales to the Los Angeles Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA) because it sold Iran equipment used to spy on dissidents.

    California politicians and Iranian human rights advocates say in awarding contracts, officials should take into account the fact that the German company participated in a joint venture with Nokia in 2008 to sell Iran’s telecommunications company a monitoring center that, according to the joint venture’s own promotional literature, can intercept and catalog e-mails, telephone calls and Internet data.

    Political pressure because of Iran’s recent crackdown on postelection protesters – as well as the country’s advancing nuclear program – could affect a vote next week on who will supply rail cars for Los Angeles County.

    “At a time when the city and the board of supervisors are urging divestment from Iran, it would be hypocritical of our board to make a deal with Siemens or anyone else who is doing business in Iran,” said Richard Katz, a member of the MTA board.

    Shirin Ebadi, an Iranian human rights lawyer and winner of the 2003 Nobel Peace Prize, told The Washington Times Thursday that she is urging Los Angeles County not to award Siemens the contract. She also urged Californians to write letters to their local representatives to boycott Siemens.

    “I don’t think the City of Los Angeles should award contracts to companies such as Nokia or Siemens who participate in the violation of basic human rights including the right to free speech and privacy,” she wrote in an e-mail. “Just as it is the duty of governments to uphold values and contracts honoring universal human rights, it is as important for companies and large corporations to do the same.”

    Saying that Nokia and Siemens participated in censorship in Iran, she added, “If such companies are faced with consequences that effect their ‘bottom line’ they will be less enticed to enter in to business agreements with any government attempting to restrict the basic human rights of their people.”

    Next week, the Los Angeles MTA board will vote on whether to extend options to an Italian company, Ansaldobreda (AB), to make 100 rail cars for the Los Angeles subway. However, senior MTA officials have been dissatisfied with the Italian company’s performance and Siemens has been considered the strongest other contender.

    “Siemens has laid a lot of groundwork that would position them well to compete for the contract if we don’t do the AB deal,” Mr. Katz said.

    A Jan. 28 memo from Mike Cannell, the MTA’s general manager for rail operations, and Lonnie Mitchell, MTA’s chief administrative services officer, to the MTA board noted problems with the Italian company.

    “Ansaldobreda’s schedule and technical performance under the P2550 contract have not met the requirements of the contract,” the memo said. It said that the rail cars were not delivered on time.

    California politicians are acutely aware of the political controversy surrounding Siemens. Los Angeles has one of the largest ethnic Iranian populations outside Iran – a group that has been following closely the crackdown on protests in Iran after disputed June 12 presidential elections there.

    Matt Szabo, spokesman for Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, said the mayor would take into account the business Siemens does with Iran.

    “The involvement of Siemens in Iran is something the mayor would weigh very seriously in consideration of MTA contracts,” Mr. Szabo said. “Particularly because he has been working to make sure that L.A.’s investments steer clear of companies that do business with Iran.”

    Mr. Villaraigosa appointed three members to the 13-member MTA board and has a vote himself on the body.

    (Corrected paragraph:) According to the German advocacy group “Stop the Bomb,” Siemens did a total of $619 million in business with Iran last year, primarily in the infrastructure and energy sector.

    A spokeswoman for Siemens AG declined to comment for this story. The Nokia-Siemens venture sold the monitoring center business to another German company earlier this year.

    Los Angeles County plans to expand its rail grid in the next few years and to buy $700 million in rail cars, Mr. Katz said. The plan is part of a proposed 30-year, $4 billion project to expand the county’s public transit system.

    The contract being voted on July 23 involves 100 rail cars worth about $300 million, Mr. Katz said.

    Rep. Brad Sherman, a Democratic representing part of Los Angeles Country, said the MTA board should definitely weigh Siemens’ involvement in Iran when voting next week.

    “I think there are two issues,” he said. “What is best for L.A. on these trains [and] what is Siemens is doing in Iran and can you trust what they say about this.”

    Mr. Sherman said that Siemens is “one of the major companies involved in Iran. They have failed to outline for the world what they would not sell the government of Iran and they are certainly undercutting our efforts to put economic pressure on Iran.”

    Jewish groups are joining with Iranian Americans to put pressure on local officials.

    “Right now, especially after what happened in the aftermath of the Iranian election in which at least thousands of Iranian citizens are in jeopardy or may have been jailed because of this monitoring technology, it can’t be business as usual,” said Rabbi Abraham Cooper, associate dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles, who is working with the Iranian community in Los Angeles.

    “The Twitter revolution in Iran can not stop at the end of a computer, there needs to be changes on the ground. The people of Iran have spoken, they have done their share. Now it is time for the rest of the world to try and take some practical steps that will help them.”

    Hadi Ghaemi, spokesman for the International Campaign for Human Rights in Iran, agreed.

    “I think the Iranian people inside the country and abroad are extremely concerned that Nokia and Siemens have enabled the Iranian government to carry out the recent crackdown and oppression using their technology,” he said. “They are hitting back with the call for a boycott.”

  291. you are doing business with a terrorist government. you are as much as guilty as that faceless riot officer who opened fire on defenseless people. selling your soul and dignity for a couple of bucks and even trying to defend it. good job nokia siemens or whatever kind of monster you are. WE IRANIANS WILL NOT FORGET. NOR WE FORGIVE.

  292. I highly suggest that you remove your claims of being ETHICAL and corporate responisbility.
    It is sadly clear that your devices have enabled the Iranina government to monitor and track people.
    Your poor attempt to appear do to rightful business is simply unacceptable.
    You have blood on your hands.
    By selling these devices you have breached all rules of ethics.
    Face it Nokia: YOU HAVE DONE THE WRONG THING.
    It is bad enough that you have provided this service to the Iranian government. But the fact that you are TRYING to justify your “blood money” instead of doing THE RIGHT THING, THE ETHICAL THING, THE RESPONSIBLE THING (through disabling the capability that you have equiped Iran government with) has simply left many people speechless. I only have 3 words for you:
    SHAME ON YOU.

  293. You know you’ve messed up REAL bad this time. It’s a shame the way the company is trying to excuse its decisions. I don’t want to have anything connected with Nokia, Siemens och NokiaSiemens anymore. Somewhere along the way you started disconnecting people instead of connecting them.

  294. I used to sell your products for a living and promote them. I was a brilliant seller that won prizes, for selling Your products. If I could turn back time I would have quit that job and not sold a single thing or promote your brand in any way at all. I am utterly disgusted with what you have done and so extremly ashamed that I have ever dealt with your products in that way. I am ashamed that I ever thought anthing good about it, I am EXTREMLY angry that you would do such a thing that has destroyed thousands of people lives. But am I surprised? No, not at all.

    I think that you are bull-shittting the world with your press-release. If you honestly did not think that Iran’s government was smart enough to pick the network they could manipulate then you seriously need to get new employees because they must be completely braindead.

    You try and justify this with your press releases and trying to answer peoples comment to make it seem like you care. EVERYONE knows that at the end of the day you went for the money. Your consumer, whom by the way you will loose one way or the other, are not the ones going to bed at night with blood money on their hands. May you never get a good nights sleep again just alike the families that can not find their loved ones.

    You will never know the extend of what you have done. I am proud to say that I and anyone around me will NEVER ever touch any of your products again. And when I am a fully qualified Journalist, which I will be shortly, I will make it one of my key projects to tell the world about what you have done.

    Congratulations on helping people die.

  295. Basic my opinion on the statement made by NSN/Roome I humbly think that most of the commenters and Shirin Ebadi among others get the situation partly wrong.

    1)
    No government (certainly not Iran) would build or support a POTS/mobile telecom infrastructure without the ability to do voice monitoring on the calls. I assume that if Nokia Siemens Networks had been prevented by EU/local export law to deliver this infrastructure including ‘lawful intercept’ capabilities, Iran would have acquired this from some other company or, as a viable alternative, built it itself or hacked/hooked the ‘lawful intercept’ into some existing system (this is, after all, not rocket science).

    2)
    Telecom systems are in many ways “dual-use technologies”– I agree with Ebadi that the EU/US should think about the people in Iran, not just themselves and nuclear protection– and as such they can be used for what we perceive as good (=protesters getting out images, videos to the rest of the world) and for what we perceive as bad (=government listening to and finding these protesters …).

    Does the good outweigh the bad here?

    This is something the companies have to consider and relate to their own ethics standards, and the legislators have to consider in drafting export laws for our countries and communities. My opinion is that without this kind of infrastructure in Iran, most of us would not have a clue about what is going on there at the moment.

    3)
    There is no way to ban, by adhering to company ethics codes or export law, “software supporting the suppression or control of Iranian citizens”.

    Monitoring unencrypted internet communication (by mobile, landline, DSL, etc) is possible without any “purchased” proprietary software technology just by using or building your own software on top of freely available open source components. Making it scalable is a small challenge, but nothing more.

    4)
    My humble opinion is that efforts put into boycotting the availability of communication infrastructure and tools is counterproductive, and instead we should focus on solutions that enable the people to communicate more, better and above all safely without being listened to or found.

  296. Shame on you, and all supporters of dictator regimes around the world.
    Enjoy the money that is red with Iranian peoples’ blood.

  297. I see no difference between the operation of your company and the blood diamond money for the companies such as De Beers for their operation in Iran. Can you answer my question:

    1. What was the dollar amount in your contract with Iranian government?

    2. Can Iran government go forward without Nokia Technology ( I suspect the switching cost and the enormous investment in the Nokia technology prohibits this).

    2. Was there ever a discussion with the government of Iran about the technoliogy you aer offering in citizen monitoring and sevuillance?

    3. Why did you not post the introductio on this technology to iranian people

    Your hands are as dirty as the government of Iran in the current atrocities being committed to the innocent young people of Iran.

    Long Live the struggle of Iranian People.

  298. I’m slightly swayed in that I’m glad you didn’t provide some of the more intrusive packages of technology to the regime. I also believe that if you had not provided this technology to Iran, someone else ultimately would have.
    However, I don’t think this is any kind of defence for providing it to a totalitarian regime, widely criticised for abuses of human rights & subject to numerous sanctions for sponsorship of terrorist organisations & it’s government’s belligerent attitude to foreign policy. These factors should have given you a clue about why it’s not just a case of ‘business is business’. People’s privacy should be treated with more respect & recent events show that your technology has been used to identify, threaten, arrest, torture & ultimately kill people guilty of nothing more than attempting freedom of speech. I would have hoped that this would lead to a very public apology to the people of Iran. Sadly, that doesn’t seem to be forthcoming so the boycott is very much in full swing and I am in full support of it.
    It seems that the bottom line is the only thing corporations like Nokia Siemens Systems respect – perhaps when you see your profits plummet further in the coming quarter, you will consider how a different response might have played to a very aware and socially responsible public.

  299. For all I care, you guys are scum.I’ll throw away my nokia cellphone and I will NEVER buy one again, I’ll switch to sony-ericsson instead.

  300. Pingback: Boycott Nokia, Siemens over Iran support-Wired « FACT – Freedom Against Censorship Thailand

  301. No responses to my questions – and my comment from 4 days ago is still awaiting ‘moderation’. Looks like the ‘connecting people’ theory has been replaced with the more pragmatic need to make a corporate buck, ignore the public, and do it at any cost.

    I repeat – can you answer the questions I raised above?

    Can you tell me why you sell and support call monitoring equipment in Iran?

    I have seen your representatives liken this to the simple business proposition of selling bullets – ‘bullets don’t kill, people do’. However, Iran is the subject of various UN embargoes, and selling security systems to Iran (like bullets) is banned by international law.

    Are you prepared to be prosecuted for the cause? Your Iranian customers have been killed as a result of your blood soaked deal.

    I have seen no coherent comment from you on this profiteering from aiding and abetting the torture and killing of innocent people. Instead, I have seen considerable ‘spin’ control in the press and on the web and I completely detest this corporate attitude.

    I urge you to make a public statement describing this deal as a mistake, to cancel the contract, disable the equipment, and return whatever fees that you were paid. (Regrettably any local ‘inducements’ paid will presumably not be returnable).

    I would also urge you to cease the ‘shell’ game of pretending that this NSN company is nothing to do with Nokia.

    This may protect your business and employees’ jobs worldwide. Nokia is already very unwelcome in Iran.

    You have made a mockery of your corporate slogan ‘connecting people’ and ethics – you have simply connected people with their deaths. I am quite sure that unless you take action, the bad press for Nokia worldwide will be substantial and outweigh any financial gain associated with this rotten deal.

  302. SHAME ON YOU… your hands are in our sisters and brothers blood.
    You are supporting the dictator in my country to kill/torture/jail Iranian people.

  303. prosperity for you or prisoners????

  304. I have contacted you before. As I mentioned earlier, my last 3 phones were Nokia. Your ads claim “Connecting People”, but this sale to Iran has not only Disconnected people, but has caused many of your own customers be put in jail. If you do not know, I will tell you, the jails in Iran are nothing like those in EU. Rape and torture of prisoners are standard practice. Guess what, with your sale to the government of Iran, now you are a part of this.

    My recommendation to you is:
    1) Choose the people instead of brutal governments as your customers.
    2) Come clean about the capabilities of what you have sold to Iran.
    3) Spend a few buck to research what Iran telecom has done was solely with the help of your equipment or Russians has a hand in this too.
    4) Find a way to make it up to your customers. We could use your help to fight off these medieval savages.

    If you choose to stay on the wrong side, then you can be sure you will be facing a publicity nightmare.

  305. We hate you in Iran! Do you know how many innocent people are in jail now, just because of what you’ve done???

  306. neda and many other people were killed iran, many were put in jail, and nokia is richer now. shame on you.

  307. sanction,sanction nokia siemens by iran.

    from iran- shiraz

  308. You do this to us. so you are with them, my brothers, sisters and friends are killed because of you.

    you simply want to “Wash your hands”???
    nothing else…

    a simple visitor, a nobody from IRAN

  309. Shame on you!!
    I myself will stop buying Nokia and Siemens products and will encourage others to do the same.

    Enjoy your blood money, but the people of Iran and the rest of the world will not forget and forgive this.

  310. Many companies sell LAWFUL weapons to other countries and those weapons get used to kill people.
    Even though what you sold to Iran, has been lawful, Iranian people have already started to boycott Nokia phones. This can be a lesson to other companies to think about where their products are begin used, before money.

  311. Heyyy NSN,

    NSN doesn’t connecting people,In the other hand NSN killing people, NSN jailing people in Iran.Shame on you.

  312. Let us assume for a moment that the behavior of Nokia is no different than that of other cell phone providers and that you are simply abiding by the laws of the countries you provide service in. Let us further assume that it is a good thing for these peoples to have cell phone service (which I do believe to bee the case).

    Knowing that the access your company has provided to the phone calls of dissidents in oppressive countries can result in them being jailed, tortured, and sometimes killed, what warning have you given to your customers in these countries regarding this possibility? What efforts have you made to use the incredible leverage of your company in changing these laws in oppressive regimes? Have you spent money on any lobbying efforts with the UN to change these laws? Have you fought them in any way whatsoever?

    If you have not taken any of these actions, it seems we can maintain the assumption that everything you have said is true and yet you are clearly guilty of collaboration in the oppression of peoples the world over.

    Please let me know why you are not. Otherwise I will be working to smash your company in the same way that the Baseej has been smashing the bodies of protesters whom your negligence has helped to have jailed.

  313. What? providing an illegal regime with “Lawful Interception”??!! systems?

    How “lawful interception” worked for STASI?
    Do you really believe that Shiite Taliban in Iran are less ruthless and more lawful than their STASI counterpart?
    Do you know how this owner of “lawful interception” system utilizes this system to crack down innocent people who just asking for their rights?

    Have you ever been beaten, injured, tortured by the criminals hired by this illegal regime?

    Have you ever been arrested just because of sending an sms to a friend inviting him or her to attend in the rally for protesting to huge fraud in election?

    Do you know what they do with women, or even young men to break them and confess all crimes they have never committed?

    We are not going to let you walkaway out of this cruel crime you have committed against Iranian people.

    We are not less powerfull and less committed than victims of Natzis and Hitler who tracked down them and trialed and punished them after decades!

    No! Iranians just let you walkaway with tons of money soaked in Iranians’ blood!

    That’s why we’ve survived a history as long as a the world history!

    No world will not believe you didn’t know that a regime who denies the holloucast and wants to eradicate a nation will not use a “lawfull interception” system for a lawful application!!!

    We recommend you to DEACTIVATE the system you have provided for Shiite Taliban regime rulling Iran NOW. This way you will be involved in less crimes and you will incur less loss of reputation, and indemnity.

  314. Sorry, in my previous comment, I meant:
    No! Iranians just don’t let you walkaway

    i missed “don’t” :D

  315. You as business guys call your products “Lawfull” because you just want to sell. But reality is that a thanks to your blody deal, lot of our people are being arrested upon monitoring of their communications by Brutal Mullah regimge in Iran. The very recent one has been Mr. Sahar Khiz ( A recogized Iranian activist)who clearly stated to his son the he was arrested and tortured after government trached his conversation.

    It is quite natural for you to taht for few dollrs more, close your eyes and sell dangerous products to Barnarian governments like the one in Iran and then claim it is “Lawful”. Can you name any other things which are “lawful” in Iran except for your Products?

    We strongly believe that Nokia, Siemens, Nokiasiemes Network (NSN) had their hand in our youths blood and decide not to buy any products from you guys worldwide.

  316. You as business guys call your products “Lawful” because you just want to sell. But reality is that a thanks to your bloody deal, lot of our people are being arrested upon monitoring of their communications by Brutal Mullah regime in Iran. The very recent one has been Mr. Sahar Khiz ( A recognized Iranian activist)who clearly stated to his son the he was arrested and tortured after government traced his conversation.

    It is quite natural for you to that for few dollars more, close your eyes and sell dangerous products to Barbarian governments like the one in Iran and then claim it is “Lawful”. Can you name any other things which are “lawful” in Iran except for your Products?

    We strongly believe that Nokia, Siemens, Nokia Siemens Networks (NSN) had their hand in our youths blood and decide not to buy any products from you guys worldwide.

  317. Selling your interception systems to Iranian regime is not too different from selling guns to gangsters. If one, and only one activist is intercepted, arrested, and murdered by the regime using your technology, you are responsible for his blood.

    I hope you can sleep well.

    Our Nokia phone have been to the bin long ago, but we are not going to stop there. Like those German companies who are still paying for the abuse of Jewish people in world war II, you will pay for this.

  318. Thank you for updating your blog comments (and thank you for reducing the number shill comments that you post). (Mentioning the US invasion of Iraq was absurdly irrelevant though – I presume that Nokia Siemens supply the monitoring equipment used in Iraq as well though).

    I will be contacting as many politicians, purchasing agents, buying influencers, and consumers as I can to make sure that Nokia and Siemens continue to reap the appropriate democratic reward for their blood soaked deal. I will never purchase another Nokia or Siemens product myself.

    I urge Nokia Siemens to deactivate the spying system and cease its maintenance. I find it extraordinary that you have not done so already.

  319. Don’t lie!

    1)
    Iranians had had mobile phones before you sell this vicious spying systems.

    These systems are not related to expanding the communication in that country.

    2)
    Based on your reasoning,so, why western countries don’t sell Uranium to Iran as they sell it to other countries?!!!
    This regime is not equal to western democracies and you blind your eyes just because of that black money.

  320. Hello NSN,

    I just can say SHAME ON YOU .

  321. Liars !
    Nokia and Siemens , go to hell !

  322. Sorry but the reasons are unacceptable. lots of people were died because Nokia wanted to earn some more dollars.
    It’s really unacceptable

  323. You participated in building a platform that the Iranian regime uses to kill my brothers and sister.

    We NEVER forget your bloody action!

  324. just i want to say ,that you do everything to make money..shame on you ,,i will never even look at nokia brand again….if money let you think forjust a second
    …just think that one of your brother or sister is in the hand of those killer , just because of your system..
    now thousands of Iranian are in the jail ,and tortured ,just because of you…shame on you..

  325. What do you mean about “net profit”? I ask a quastion: We have some communicational possibility (as positive) and some people were arrested/injured/killed (as negative), so what is the sum?

  326. What law are you talking about? Hitler government was lawful by the laws of that time. would you support him? I think you would for money.Please do not play innocent. It is too obvious to deny. You are pathetic you just started to defend yourselves when you were boycotted and yours stock went down. I will never buy any of you products unless you accept your fault and take effective steps to compensate

  327. You help dictatorship!
    We won’t purchase a Nokia/Siemens product again!
    shame on YOU!

  328. your actions were irresponsible and this sign of disgrace can not be easily washed from your company’s image. As human beings, we are responsible for the decisions that we make which violate the human right.

    nokia and siemens have caused a lot of harm and death in iran because of their greed. I have banned your products and I’m never gonna buy anything from you again. I also try as much as I can to discourage everyone from buying products, so that you’ll understand that innocents’s blood will hunt you sooner or later.

  329. Shame on you !

  330. You are now moderating my comment what are you moderating? Are you considering selling me to Iran dictators as you did to my friends? Go on they may pay you a good money!

  331. I just read that you provided us with the technology to make videos by cellphones and the net benefit was greater! shame on you. We do that by our Sony Erickson and LG cellphones and the quality is better. do not bother.

  332. Nokia helps dictatorships

  333. Siemens helps dictatorships as well

  334. Iranian people never buy Nokia and Siemens products.

  335. You should be ashamed of yourself because you are helping the tyrants who are shedding millions of innocent people’s lives. We will all put sanctions on your produts.
    WE ONLY SUPPORT THOSE WHO SUPPORT US IN RETURN.

  336. Shame on you
    I was there and saw the effectiveness of your “Lawful Interception”!!
    None of your explanations are good enough for me.
    Either you provide a solution to NOKIA holders in Iran or no more Nokia for me, my family, relatives and business partner. They know why I am boycott you.

    Shame on you.
    I hope your stock will find its why to hell.
    We will not let you walk away.

  337. Emotions seem to be running high among the commentators and the majority of them seem to fail at basic reading comprehension.

    From what I understand of it all, the “monitoring capability” was part of a larger deal between NSN and a mobile operator in Iran. That operator was legally required to have lawful interception capability as part of its operating license.

    There are some commenters who wrote that Iran already had a fixed network. What makes you sure that network didn’t have the same interception capability? What makes you think the capacity of that network would be sufficient as Iranians have increasingly switched to mobiles?

    While the situation in Iran is serious, this smear attack is childish.

  338. shame on You Liars, We will see you in court with our evidence, Nokia jailing people

  339. I got rid of my Nokia cell phone ,I will use my old LG for now , your explanation just proved rumors.

  340. Be sure that until I alive (if they let me…) I won’t buy any product by name of NOKIA or SIEMENS!!

  341. it’s all lie! you support dictatorship in Iran. shame on you. many people in Iran will not buy r products. you know? you help them to kill people.

  342. i had 2 Nokia cell phone, i shooted them out.

    also my car was equipted with Siemens Engine Management System until 3 days ago, but 3 daye ago it has been converted with a Bosch system.shame on your Bloody hands,

    your brands are bycot now by people in iran, may be Iranian devil governors would likes to shake your hands, but Iranian people never forget what you done with them, shame on you…….you are killing people

  343. Where are the managers and salespeople of siemens nokia at home? in their homemade nice business world dreams? this monitoring might be ok in the hands of respectful people who do not misuse.
    IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE WITH WHAT REGIME YOU ARE MAKING BUSINESS!!!
    This responsibility every company has. In the hands of dictators your beautiful connecting and monitoring tools turns into being a weapon.

  344. It is not a matter of how much in deep they can inspect the Iranian people. It is the social responsibility of Nokia that is under question. The Iranian market requires support from mobile providers and look what you have done to your faithful customers. I say from a customer perspective that Nokia failed in gaining my trust and what a company has without faithful customers?

  345. As an Iranian I appreciate your work on building the mobile infrastructure; but you have not done it for free. That is business of your company. On the other hand, intercepting technology and communication technologies are two different things.

    You have recently given the technology as you call it “Lawful interception…” to Iranian government. What you never expected was this huge public awareness about the awkward side of this business.

    No need to bring more justifications, it’s your product, your business; but do not claim that what you have done is moral. Yes, it might be lawful under European laws and maybe you have not violated any sanction laws. You probably are not legally responsible, but morally? don’t you think all you said are justifications of a wrong doing as you try to have a clear conscious …

  346. may nokia know or act like supid’s but people know who is responseble for tortuering “isa saharkhiz”. he is now in prisone becous of this sistem sold to ayatollah’s and mahmood ahmadi nejad.
    he did nothing just love his contry and his cultuer
    “saharkhiz”es life sold by nokia ,let thay shame for what thay have don, if thay know what is shame!
    now you nokia have to know if any thing hapend to “isa saharkhiz” in prisone i and many like me will hold nokia responseble .
    i dont think nokia care for “isa saharkhiz’es” wife and children without the father how thay must survive in this crull world!!!
    shame on you , dont stand there and look like stupides, do any thing to take him out of jell.
    are you def or what?

  347. Nokia Siemens – I applaud you for publishing comments.

    I detest the shill comments which misguided Nokia and Siemens employees leave here e.g. ‘basic reading comprehension’.

    Hopefully someone in your management chain will read all these comments and decide that a more honest, forthright, and business sensible approach will be to:

    1. Deactivate the monitoring system
    2. Cancel the existing contract with the Iranian regime (I remain appalled that you are continuing to provide technical support on the system)
    3. Issue a mea culpa explaining to investors and customers how this grotesque error of judgment was made and what has been done or who has been ‘let go’ so that this will not happen again

    This may cost Nokia-Siemens some millions of dollars. However, the error that you have made here will cost you much more as the recent (lost) deals with Nortel and LA demonstrate. Nokia-Siemens can be sure that many more such lost deals will follow.

    To the commenter on Siemens judgment with respect to dictators. Siemens benefited greatly by the use of slave labor in Nazi Germany.

    Somewhat belatedly Siemens decided to recognize the need to set aside a small number of dollars for these past ‘indiscretions’ (if that is how you can describe the enslavement and slaughter of millions):

    http://www.nytimes.com/1998/09/24/world/world-news-briefs-siemens-creates-a-fund-for-nazi-slave-workers.html

    Interestingly – this small stirring of conscience was stimulated by law suits in the US. I am sure that there are many US lawyers who will be happy to take on the cases of those innocent young Nokia customers whose deaths and torture have been caused by the Nokia-Siemens monitoring system.

    I am sure that the families outside Evin today will find the prospect of a protracted, graphic, human rights-based court case against Nokia-Siemens distasteful as it cannot correct the wrong that is being perpetrated. However, while this suit will not bring justice, it will provide token of compensation to affected families and provide an incentive for companies like Nokia-Siemens to adhere to their ethical guidelines in the future.

    I am sure such a court case when it come will simply be written off as a cost of doing business (like the billion dollar fine paid by Siemens in Europe for bribing government officials).

    And in the meantime I will continue to spread the word about Nokia-Siemens role in this humanitarian disaster to all potential buyers, large and small, world wide.

  348. Dear Nokia,

    This is my 3rd comment on this webpage. Your sale of such highly technical equipment that invades the people’s privacy to such a autocratic regime truly bothers me. What bothers me even more is your comment above that shows such callous disregard for humanity. You don’t seem to understand; you have sold a technology to a despotic regime that uses your technology to put its dissedents (many of them your own customers) in jail and tortures them. Then you come and give us your business like explanation, as if you have no responsibility.

    Today, I was pleased to hear that the USA has sanctioned your company. Now, there is no way for you to get the $300M contract with LA County MTA. But these are just punishments, and will not improve our future. I suggest that you come cleand and own up to your mistake. Then figure out a way to rejoin the Human Race, and never again use technology to destroy people’s lives and take away their freedom.

  349. So, by the “political correction” of your relationships with Ahmanideyad I can surely tell you will do the same for other dictators all over the world. Like Hugo Chavez, I think so, or Rafael Castro, or other ones whom you want to “expand” your interests. I said interests, not in people of course, in money. Next thing you will know is that my Nokia phone(ups!)will have no return from the trash and…you will lose ANOTHER client in the hands of your competitors (like Blackberry, the ones who have let you behind far ago) isn´t nasty when you´re losing costumers for being a sucker? bad company, bad.

  350. there is no excuse supporting dictators, in any case there is an existing us sanctions covered on export of sensitive technology to despotic regimes

  351. I hate Nokia ! I’m gonna but another one and all of my friends inside Iran WON’T but your cellphones !!!
    There are lots of better cellphones out there ! Rather than your bloody cellphones!

  352. I hate Nokia ! I’m gonna buy another one and all of my friends inside Iran WON’T but your cellphones !!!
    There are lots of better cellphones out there ! Rather than your bloody cellphones!

  353. To those you talk of the net benefit. Iranian people have already boycotted using mobile phones! I have not used my cellphone since the crackdown.We are still protesting and we are connected to the world. You call our discussion childish and sentimental. while you have childishly accepted the excuses worse than the crime. Before the selling of that equipments we had a working network and while you pathetically allege that your competitors have also done that, present your evidence! It is you who confessed to the crime is under investigation for sanction in US congress and trying to clear your name. I just Waite to see you greedy people’s bankruptcy and losing all your filthy money. It is really near.

  354. It looks like you guys at NSN have nothing to say and can not reply to our questions and concerns abot your Blood soaked deal.It is now the time for you to think about what you did and find a solution for what you did if it is not too late.

  355. Well, you convinced me; I have a Nokia; the next one won’t be one; I will also inform my friends; thank you

  356. Unfortunately you started with such a big fat lie that I lost my apetite to read the rest of your BS. Every kid knows that Nokia Siemens Networks belong to Nokia. If you don’t, check your own web site.
    2)Which law are you talking about? We call it Jungle law. You sell your products to Iran because no one else buys your trash.

    I bet if Taliban was in power, you would love to provide telecomunication for Afghani people too.
    Just a little piece of advise for you;
    You have dealt with too many idiots, we are not one of them,
    Iranians will not forgive you. Find another market for yourself. Pretty soon you will be banned in Free Republic of Iran.

  357. To ZZTech: It’s naivety to assume that disagreeing with your views would imply the poster is an employee of Nokia/NSN/Siemens. I am not working for any of the above. Also, you in turn failed to respond to a single of my arguments.

    The facts as they stand:
    – NSN sold a “lawful interception system” to an Iranian operator, and it was part of the customer requirement.
    – “Lawful interception systems” can be used for a variety of purposes – including to investigate crime and intelligence collection on terrorist groups.
    – NSN does not run the system, the operator does. It’s between the operator and the Iranian government to define the parameters for accessing the system (i.e. court orders or similar).
    – Mobile networks improve the quality of life and save lives – for example by enabling someone to call for help when their familymember suddenly falls ill.

    This charade of accusing NSN for the actions of the Iranian regime and Iranian operators is like accusing a car manufacturer because some looney drove that specific brand of car into a crowd.

  358. As an outsider, I will try to give some common sense answer to ZZtech’s questions:

    Q: If this capability you sold the regime was so essential (’central’) for the network – how come it was only recently installed?

    A: There is a difference between a technical necessity and an operational necessity. Telecommunications networks can surely technically operate without “lawful interception” capabilities, however the operating license of many mobile operators is tied to a requirement of providing governments with interception capabilities. Also, why do you assume similar capabilities did not exist in the previous networks in Iran and that this would be a new thing?

    Q: Did the network only work by accident prior to the installation of this capability?

    A: Same as my above answer. What makes you sure that the same capability did not exist in previous networks? Also, as I’ve understood it, the “lawful interception” was not sold as a separate standalone deal – it was part of a larger network setup and one required component was this capability. Either one provides it, or one doesn’t implement the network at all.

    Q: Is this contrary to UN embargo?

    A: The UN embargo list is mainly related to military technology and dual-use goods (encryption) and is more focused on who this goods can be sold to. More details on the sanctions (including people/entities covered by it): http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2007/sc8980.doc.htm

  359. Nokia is a bad company for doing business with Iran

  360. I have a question. How many other countries have laws that require similar monitoring equipment is installed in their networks?

    Does the UK, for instance, require it?

  361. I am deeply concerned about Nokia and Siemens and believe that I cannot buy another piece of their equipment as it stands for ‘EXECUTION IN IRAN’

    I am so glad that the USA government is putting sanctions on them. What is happening in Iran is terrible, these companies should never have been in Iran in the first place.

    I’ve seen so much bad publicity of Nokia and Siemens and its only what they deserve.

  362. Lawful intercept in the hands of an illegal and unlawful government is a crime.

  363. you are bad and very bad. and not the human.you are rabish and we teenager and young peaple in iran and all iranian in the word donot boy the nokia and siemens technology and every thing that they make.

    down with you .

  364. u are bastard . because boyd the technikal blocker and see information people in the network to rejimm in iran.
    1 milion bastarded you.

  365. A few things I would like to know:

    Are there any mobile phone infrastructure suppliers that do NOT support this “lawful intercept” ?

    You say this is a global thing and isn’t unique to just Iran. Is this specific to the mobile telecom’s sector or does it apply to landline communications also ?

    Are there rules to what this “lawful intercept” can be used for??

  366. sorry but your answer is not acceptable!
    -you collaborate with perusa,and as i understood perusa (german firm)is connected to NOKIA-SIEMENS ,so NSN gived the mechanic systems to Iran’s regime and perusa (controlled by NSN) gived the software to iran’ s regime!!IS TRUE OR NOT? u know very wheel who supplyed the deep software spy system..
    -how is possible that NSN gived the system and tecnology for mobile tecnology, without check who supply the software and if this software was compatible???
    THE BIG MISTAKE IS THIS:THIS SOFTWARE IS THE MOST NEWEST AND PERFORMANCE,TECNOLOGY EXISITING IN THE WORLD..SO U RE GUILTY!!!THERE ARE NO EXCUSE..

  367. Can Nokia Siemens now atleast cme out and relent? And do evrything to Condemn Iranian Regime?

    Least they can do to save whatever remains?

    Otherwise they deserve wrath of the people.

  368. You should be ashamed for ever providing anything to such a government at anytime…..I am calling for all to “dump” your stock worldwide!!!

  369. * To my American NYWJ friends who mention that no US companies work with Iran
    http://money.cnn.com/2003/05/29/news/iran_sanctions/ and still there are 100 of them who continue to work, US govt. will never condemn them and will never report it to anybody, money matters

    * Lawful interception Systems—A very basic requirement of all telecom operators in all countries ( regardless communist, democratic whatsoever), those talking bullshit about it have no knowledge about the normal telecommunication services structure.

    * How come rest of telecom companies are quite, seems its good marketing gimmick working against Nokia and Siemens mobile phones, which have nothing to do with it, eventually all Telecom suppliers support lawful interception functionality.

    * Why NSN be ashamed of, AK47 is used by terrorist also and Militarizes and Police also, did anybody ever blamed its manufacturer.

    * Finally Iran is a member state of UN, and all UN member countries have such systems, then what NSN did wrong selling this equipment. If Iran Govt. was so bad or whatsoever then first all UN permanent members should have put off Iran from its list.

    Atlast, what media says and shows is not always true, seems some people still think with closed eyes and ears.

    Whatever happened in Iran might be wrong, but when NSN provided this system, its govt. was a legitimate Govt, recognized by US & UN. So whom to blame ?

    To those who condemn NSN solely, why don,t you condemn the weapon suppliers who provide these killing Machines to Govt. Are you listening???

  370. It is true what we see today coming out of streets of Iran (beatings, shootings, Killings, screams of people being pulled out of their houses in the dark of night) is due to the fact that your company has provided the people in Iran with this technology and for us around world to witness…but at what cost? You don’t even care..do you?…you keep reminding, or better yet, tip toeing over the fact that “Would people in Iran be better off without access to telecommunication at all?” I’d say YES…If you’re worried about Iranian people being without telecommunication..OH please, don’t you worry…we don’t want you to upset your self over this…cause you might loose a sleep or couple of dollars…
    Was there a NSN back in the 1979 when the first revolution took place? You didn’t see anybody back then running in the streets of Tehran with a Nokia in their hands, did you? People relied on technology this time a lot and they paid for it…with their blood…with your help…
    There is a Persian story: Two friends were laying under the shade of a tree. One of them got up to see a bee sitting on his friends nose. He took a big stone and bashed his friends nose together with the bee. Poor guy got up and yelled at his friend: you stupid ass, you broke my nose…why did you do that? The stupid friend replied: There was a bee on your nose, I thought it was going to sting you…did you rather get stung by the bee?
    Yes, his friend replied, I’d rather GET STUNG BY THAT BEE THAN YOU BREAKING MY NOSE!!
    We rather have no technology than getting our brothers and sisters killed because of that technology…These arrests and killings have just begun…we just witnessed few of these. What you have provided the Iranian government is the capability to root out one by one, night after night of arrests…

  371. You recently made a deal with T-Mobile for a 3G.

    I stopped T-Mobile as my provider. Any company that from now on works with you. I will avoid.

    Your identity has been developed by Moving Brands, will get them soon.

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    abuse…it’s not abuse

    YOU HAVE FAILED US

    NO PR CAMPAIGN CAN SAVE YOU

    OLD TECHNOLOGY, WORD OF MOUTH WILL PREVAIL

    EVERY SENTENCE I WILL START WITH

    “DID YOU KNOW WHAT NOKIA SIEMENS NETWORKS HAVE DONE?”

    HYPOCRITE

    BECAUSE OF THIS I HAVE CANCELLED MY SOCIAL NETWORKS AND WILL STOP MY MAIL SERVICES TOO!

    I HAVE STOPPED MY MOBILE SUBSCRIPTION WITH T-MOBILE

    I WILL STOP USING UPC INTERNET

    I WILL BE LIVING IN THE SHADES FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS

    STUPID SON OF A BITCH

  373. It’s really simple.

    You have failed us.

    It’s public.

    No spin, no slick campaign will change anything.

    Rebranding won’t work either.

    I see no option for you to win my trust ever again.

    But I want to thank you Ben Roome for opening my eyes, because what you are saying is that I can’t trust anyone of you!

    I will stop using social networks, mail services, mobile and landlines and the Internet.

    Any product that is related to Nokia or Siemens will not come in my household.

    Ben you have failed us.

    And not only the Iranians.

    Everyone that reads this blogpost will understand what you are saying. You are all very misrepresenting companies and it’s not only NSN.

    With one blogpost you have sent me back to the stone ages.

    Thank You Ben Roome

  374. Ery, many thanks for your comments. I don’t see any substantive answers to my questions. In fact your words support the conviction that Nokia Siemens has behaved criminally. (Perhaps you are working as shill against Nokia?)

    Q. If the ‘lawful’ intercept system is so vital to the network how did the system operate before its installation?

    ‘Ery’ responded with ‘technical necessity’ and ‘operational necessity’, and I think amid the legaleaze ‘Ery’ said it was an operational necessity. Probably a condition of the operational contract that NSN (for whom Ery doesn’t work) has with the Iranian regime. So, I guess this confirms the fact that there was no technical requirement for the installation of the system. I am sure monitoring was possible before the installation of the system. According to the NSN advertising material, the benefit of the system is that it enables a small number of people to monitor a vast number of calls. Perfect for the Iranian regime, and I am sure that this was its major selling point prior to the election.

    Q: Is this contrary to UN embargo?

    Thanks for that link ‘Ery’ – this says that ceasing the enrichment program may lead to support of the currently banned ‘Support for the modernization of Iran’s telecommunication infrastructure and advanced Internet provision, including by possible removal of relevant United States and other export restrictions.’

    This means that the export of this technology to Iran was indeed illegal. I am therefore wondering how NSN managed to avoid complying with the sanctions. Perhaps ‘Ery’ you could publish the NSN lawyer’s perspective on this? I hope that everyone reading this page will forward ‘Ery’s revelation on the illegality of the sale to their elected (or dictatorial) representatives.

    How about ‘answering’ some more questions ‘Ery’?

    -Are NSN still being paid by the Iranian regime? (Maintenance for example?)
    -Do NSN actively support the system (or should we say ‘motor car’ to assuage the NSN consciences?)
    -Which other dictatorships do NSN support with their ‘motor cars’ (or spying equipment?
    -Do NSN have additional deals in the pipeline with the Iranian regime?
    -How much money did NSN make from this deal?
    -How many people are captured per unit time as a result of the NSN system (presumably this is a marketing benefit for NSN?)
    -How many people have been killed as a result of the use of the NSN system in Iran?
    -Can the system be used to route and monitor military communications?
    -Are NSN employees currently based in Iran to support the system?
    -Are NSN employees permitted to express opinions contrary to the Iranian regime?
    -Can the NSN monitoring system be used to detect video traffic (based on the size of messages, for example)?
    -How do Nokia and Siemens not understand that supporting the Iranian regime with high tech spying equipment, used to capture, to kill, and to torture innocent citizens, is not going to be good for their worldwide image?

    I believe that the world is repulsed by the Nokia-Siemens Iranian-regime deal and the subsequent pious and sanctimonious position taken by Nokia and Siemens. ‘Ery’, non-employee of NSN that you no doubt are, what is your honest opinion of this particular deal?

    Is this equivalent to selling cars to bad drivers, or the equivalent of selling innocent people to their deaths? Please answer this question directly ‘Ery’?

    Ery, as I am sure you are aware, Siemens employed death camp slave labor in the Nazi era.

    However, I guess one reason for supporting Ahmadinejad et al, is that the denial such facts is something that Nokia Siemens and the Iranian regime have in common. (Ery – care to make a denial?)

    No doubt 1940′s Siemens said that their actions were quite ‘lawful’ too.

    ‘Ery’, George Galloway, et al, I look forward to your comments. I am sure that they will be well written, carefully reviewed by your legal departments, and morally completely flawed.

  375. As to Peace’s comments.

    A several US companies are illegally sneaking around sanctions with Iran. Yes, they should all be prosecuted.

    Do you notice a difference?:

    HP – sell ink cartridges to Iran (via various intermediaries) – this enables the regime (at worst) to print absurd election result pie charts, in color (at a ridiculous per page cost).

    Nokia, proudly and piously, sell an ultra-efficient system to spy on telephone users – and those telephone users who are caught are jailed, tortured, raped, and killed. This is a very cost effective means of instilling terror and subjugating a population for a blood thirsty regime.

    All much the same as far as you are concerned? All pretty much in the pragmatic, its just an AK47 we don’t pull the trigger – someone going to sell those weapons anyway – so it might as well be my company – category?

    All I can say is that it is fortunate for the world that you and Nokia are not in the nerve gas ingredients business. Sadly, Siemens probably are…

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  377. Pingback: Nokia Siemens denies Iran web snoop | Treeduck

  378. ZZTech: your latest comments have not been posted as they are ad hominem comments about me in a previous role.

    In regard to some previous questions/comments many of these were answered some time ago by the updated information posted here.

  379. Hello,
    The following statement is from your organization. It could be also a proof for any Iranian family that they lost (by execution or any other forms) any member of their family executed by Iranian regim.
    If your technology did help this barbaric regim to identify freedom fighters, even on cellphones. Your company will need a super ultra ‘logical’ reason for that.

    “Nokia Siemens Networks has provided Lawful Intercept capability solely for the monitoring of local voice calls in Iran.”

    Mehrzad

  380. LOL! “Lawful intercept”? Show me one crime that was uncovered using your lawful intercept! I can show you thousands of crimes that have been “committed using your ‘lawful intercept’ capability” by the government of iran. You do not need to hide behind “lawful intercept” or facilitating “communication” f’or the people of iran to participate in crimes of the government of iran against its people. Iranian people neither want your ‘communication facility’ nor your participation in crimes against people of iran under the cover of “lawful intercept” for the sole purpose of making money for the same company which had also a role in “then-lawful” crimes of Hitler.

    You might as well go and sell nuke technology to iran; after all it is totally “lawful” under NPT. Oh, I see, the latter “may” harm ‘others’ while the former (your communication facilities with its lawful intercept) “did” harm ‘people of iran’.

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